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Internet stability is not threatened by the loss of a single root server, it’s not even a blip on the radar. In fact most people wouldn’t even notice if they al

Internet stability is not threatened by the loss of a single root server, it’s not even a blip on the radar. In fact most people wouldn’t even notice if they all went down for a few minutes, DNS operators do not actually use these servers directly. You can even run your own if you are crazy enough. Everyone likes to meme on DNS but it’s literally designed to make these servers as unimportant as possible. It’s a really well designed system that will probably be around as long as humans exist.

denton-scratch 2y ago
> that will probably be around as long as humans exist. My goodness, that's a strong claim to make, about a glue layer in a computing technology that's been around for just 50 years. I mean, arguably the internet as we knew it is already dying. The original design of DNS was flawed (no security), and the patches to fix those flaws are far from perfect.
- bdamm 2y ago
  Replacing Internet infrastructure is incredibly difficult. We'll all be switching over to IPv6... any decade now. DNS was flawed, but it was very good for the time, and it still is the keystone around which the entire Internet functions. That's pretty incredible for a system that has indeed received a lot of patches. And DNSSEC might turn out to be just as well designed as the original DNS. Besides, what are we going to replace it with, namechain? I'll put you on hold while all the ISPs switch over.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Over 50% of Internet traffic is IPv6, by the way.
  - denton-scratch 2y ago
    > but it was very good for the time It's still very good. People keep finding new ways to apply DNS. I was just grumbling about the OTT claim that the DNS will still be there as the last human becomes extinct.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    I think the conventional wisdom is that we are going to replace DNSSEC with nothing. Security is provided at other layers of the stack.
    - bdamm 2y ago
      Certain forms of security cannot be provided by other layers of the stack.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  it's Good Enough and Not Broke, so there's little incentive to iterate I wouldn't mind some alien technology taking over for TCP/IP but that's squarely within the "unforseeable" IMO
- adamomada 2y ago
  A bit pessimistic, but maybe the subtext is we won’t be around for very much longer
jedberg 2y ago
> DNS operators do not actually use these servers directly. No, but a lot of servers do. In 2020 the root servers saw 120 billion queries a day, which was double what they saw in 2018: https://blog.apnic.net/2020/09/28/scaling-the-root-of-the-dns/ https://blog.apnic.net/2020/09/28/scaling-the-root-of-the-dn... It's probably closer to half a trillion queries a day now.
- sebzim4500 2y ago
  IIRC a large chunk of those is spam from chrome which most people wouldn't notice if they stopped working
  - deathanatos 2y ago
    … under what circumstance is Chrome hitting the root DNS servers?
    - ectospheno 2y ago
      Old bug fixed in 2020. OP didn’t know of the fix it seems. Was covered on Hacker News at the time. Still top google result.
      - deathanatos 2y ago
        Well that's horrifying. For those that are wondering like me: https://blog.apnic.net/2020/08/21/chromiums-impact-on-root-dns-traffic/ https://blog.apnic.net/2020/08/21/chromiums-impact-on-root-d... Essentially, it generated 3 random, single-label (so, "TLD") queries, and ran them through DNS. Whatever recurser that lands at obviously wouldn't have random junk in its cache (unlike probably any other root record) and thus had to go to the root servers for it. They did this to try to not display an omnibox result for single words (the example in the article is "marketing") on what I'm going to just call "broken networks"; see TFA if you're curious.
        bewaretheirs 2y ago

denton-scratch 2y ago

> that will probably be around as long as humans exist. My goodness, that's a strong claim to make, about a glue layer in a computing technology that's been around for just 50 years. I mean, arguably the internet as we knew it is already dying. The original design of DNS was flawed (no security), and the patches to fix those flaws are far from perfect.

bdamm 2y ago
Replacing Internet infrastructure is incredibly difficult. We'll all be switching over to IPv6... any decade now. DNS was flawed, but it was very good for the time, and it still is the keystone around which the entire Internet functions. That's pretty incredible for a system that has indeed received a lot of patches. And DNSSEC might turn out to be just as well designed as the original DNS. Besides, what are we going to replace it with, namechain? I'll put you on hold while all the ISPs switch over.
- immibis 2y ago
  Over 50% of Internet traffic is IPv6, by the way.
- denton-scratch 2y ago
  > but it was very good for the time It's still very good. People keep finding new ways to apply DNS. I was just grumbling about the OTT claim that the DNS will still be there as the last human becomes extinct.
- tptacek 2y ago
  I think the conventional wisdom is that we are going to replace DNSSEC with nothing. Security is provided at other layers of the stack.
  - bdamm 2y ago
    Certain forms of security cannot be provided by other layers of the stack.
jazzyjackson 2y ago
it's Good Enough and Not Broke, so there's little incentive to iterate I wouldn't mind some alien technology taking over for TCP/IP but that's squarely within the "unforseeable" IMO
adamomada 2y ago
A bit pessimistic, but maybe the subtext is we won’t be around for very much longer

jedberg 2y ago

> DNS operators do not actually use these servers directly. No, but a lot of servers do. In 2020 the root servers saw 120 billion queries a day, which was double what they saw in 2018: https://blog.apnic.net/2020/09/28/scaling-the-root-of-the-dns/ https://blog.apnic.net/2020/09/28/scaling-the-root-of-the-dn... It's probably closer to half a trillion queries a day now.

sebzim4500 2y ago
IIRC a large chunk of those is spam from chrome which most people wouldn't notice if they stopped working
- deathanatos 2y ago
  … under what circumstance is Chrome hitting the root DNS servers?
  - ectospheno 2y ago
    Old bug fixed in 2020. OP didn’t know of the fix it seems. Was covered on Hacker News at the time. Still top google result.
    - deathanatos 2y ago
      Well that's horrifying. For those that are wondering like me: https://blog.apnic.net/2020/08/21/chromiums-impact-on-root-dns-traffic/ https://blog.apnic.net/2020/08/21/chromiums-impact-on-root-d... Essentially, it generated 3 random, single-label (so, "TLD") queries, and ran them through DNS. Whatever recurser that lands at obviously wouldn't have random junk in its cache (unlike probably any other root record) and thus had to go to the root servers for it. They did this to try to not display an omnibox result for single words (the example in the article is "marketing") on what I'm going to just call "broken networks"; see TFA if you're curious.
      - bewaretheirs 2y ago