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One wonders why email isn't kept in a well-thought out directory structure since the beginnings of UNIX, given that almost anything is a file in UNIX, and espec

by jll29 2y ago

One wonders why email isn't kept in a well-thought out directory structure since the beginnings of UNIX, given that almost anything is a file in UNIX, and especially given the power of UNIX text processing tools.

technofiend 2y ago
If you'd like to try it, MH uses directories and files for managing your email: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/mh-e/index.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/mh-e/ind... As you mentioned this is the unix way and MH (according to Wikipedia) dates back to 1979: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MH_Message_Handling_System https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MH_Message_Handling_System
- MassPikeMike 2y ago
  The parent's pointer is to "MH-E", the emacs package, which is a great interface to MH for folks who use emacs to read their email. For folks who don't, I wanted to clarify that MH also works great outside of emacs. Its command-line tools are composable, so you can do things like reply to the first message about chess sent this week: repl `pick -subject chess -after "19 May 24 0000 PST"` Using them in scripts is especially powerful. The modern implementation is "nmh", "New Message Handler", https://www.nongnu.org/nmh/ https://www.nongnu.org/nmh/. MH was the mail system within MIT's Athena computing environment back in the day, so many MIT folks developed a fondness for it and it retains a following. There's even a very comprehensive O'Reilly book, free online: https://rand-mh.sourceforge.io/book/ https://rand-mh.sourceforge.io/book/
PurpleRamen 2y ago
There were multiple formats for storing mails through the times. And many are using folders. But each format has their own problems, and were optimized for certain benefits. And on unix you have to make this workable with multiple programs accessing them in parallel, because in the early days there were no servers who had tight control over everything. So, formats were often designed around using or preventing file locks, making efficient use of storage or allowing fast handling and management of mail-flags.
- ck45 2y ago
  For a quite long time, a very popular format was mbox (the most popular?), which is a single file. With the arrival of qmail, it was slowly replaced by Maildir.
- mbreese 2y ago
  Not even just common formats, but way back, Mail was delivered by copying files from one server to another. I (barely) remember using UUCP before SMTP/NNTP to sync Mail and news. So, the format that you stored messages in was very important. It’s easy to copy a single message when it is a complete file.
  - p_l 2y ago
    SMTP followed on from MTP, which in turn attempted to replace previous schemes involving FTP or similar "manipulate mailbox remotely" approaches. Along the lines, bridging UUCP and other text-only email systems was also taken into account.

by jll29 2y ago

technofiend 2y ago

If you'd like to try it, MH uses directories and files for managing your email: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/mh-e/index.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/mh-e/ind... As you mentioned this is the unix way and MH (according to Wikipedia) dates back to 1979: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MH_Message_Handling_System https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MH_Message_Handling_System

MassPikeMike 2y ago
The parent's pointer is to "MH-E", the emacs package, which is a great interface to MH for folks who use emacs to read their email. For folks who don't, I wanted to clarify that MH also works great outside of emacs. Its command-line tools are composable, so you can do things like reply to the first message about chess sent this week: repl `pick -subject chess -after "19 May 24 0000 PST"` Using them in scripts is especially powerful. The modern implementation is "nmh", "New Message Handler", https://www.nongnu.org/nmh/ https://www.nongnu.org/nmh/. MH was the mail system within MIT's Athena computing environment back in the day, so many MIT folks developed a fondness for it and it retains a following. There's even a very comprehensive O'Reilly book, free online: https://rand-mh.sourceforge.io/book/ https://rand-mh.sourceforge.io/book/

PurpleRamen 2y ago

There were multiple formats for storing mails through the times. And many are using folders. But each format has their own problems, and were optimized for certain benefits. And on unix you have to make this workable with multiple programs accessing them in parallel, because in the early days there were no servers who had tight control over everything. So, formats were often designed around using or preventing file locks, making efficient use of storage or allowing fast handling and management of mail-flags.

ck45 2y ago
For a quite long time, a very popular format was mbox (the most popular?), which is a single file. With the arrival of qmail, it was slowly replaced by Maildir.
mbreese 2y ago
Not even just common formats, but way back, Mail was delivered by copying files from one server to another. I (barely) remember using UUCP before SMTP/NNTP to sync Mail and news. So, the format that you stored messages in was very important. It’s easy to copy a single message when it is a complete file.
- p_l 2y ago
  SMTP followed on from MTP, which in turn attempted to replace previous schemes involving FTP or similar "manipulate mailbox remotely" approaches. Along the lines, bridging UUCP and other text-only email systems was also taken into account.