5 ms·

Funny timing as I just revisited the brilliant "Step Right Up" (and the entire Small Change album) a few days ago, and had no idea about this case. Glad Tomcat

by pwil30 2y ago

Funny timing as I just revisited the brilliant "Step Right Up" (and the entire Small Change album) a few days ago, and had no idea about this case. Glad Tomcat won. Can't help but see some parallels between this and current Scarlett Johansson vs. OpenAI debacle. My very favourite line, among many, from "Step Right Up": __The large print giveth and the small print taketh away.__

ecjhdnc2025 2y ago
Her debut solo album was Waits and Waits/Brennan covers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anywhere_I_Lay_My_Head https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anywhere_I_Lay_My_Head Eclectic choices even for Waits songs. Though I'd like to hear her take on Poor Edward or Fish And Bird or Soldier's Things
- tootie 2y ago
  Speaking of which, Waits name drops KCRW Morning Becomes Eclectic which is still an outstanding way to hear new music. https://www.kcrw.com/music/shows/eclectic24 https://www.kcrw.com/music/shows/eclectic24
  - ecjhdnc2025 2y ago
    I (a Brit) used to listen to this pretty much religiously in the Nic Harcourt days.
drewzero1 2y ago
> Can't help but see some parallels between this and current Scarlett Johansson vs. OpenAI debacle. I think that's why this was posted... I saw it referenced in a comment on that thread.
sandworm101 2y ago
The logical parallels might be there but in legal substance they are different cases. A deliberate replication of an artist's distinct singing voice, while singing lyrics associated with that artist, is very different than a passing similarity to someone's non-unique speaking voice. Note that the Johansson issue is playing out only in the court of public opinion.
- sdenton4 2y ago
  If you think they weren't trying to replicate sj's voice, I can only assume you've got open ai stock clouding your judgement... It looks like they caaaaarefully avoided writing down 'sound like sj' while choosing+directing a sound-alike actor for the role.
  - sandworm101 2y ago
    >> If you think they weren't trying to replicate sj's voice Coevolution. The AI and the now-famous actor are the end products of a selection process aimed at a similar audience. The AI creators were likely aiming for the most attractive female voice, according to a bunch of young men. That parallels the process used by those casting action movies, which are also aimed at young men. It should be to nobody's great surprise that the end products of both share many features. What is very odd is how similar celeb faces actually are. There really is a mathematical standard for beauty when it comes to female faces, which is why so many celebs are have eerily identical proportions. There is probably a model too for voices. https://gotobeauty.com/plastic-surgery/how-math-shapes-modern-aesthetic-ideals/ https://gotobeauty.com/plastic-surgery/how-math-shapes-moder...
    - bluefirebrand 2y ago
      > Coevolution. The AI and the now-famous actor are the end products of a selection process aimed at a similar audience This might hold water if the actor weren't famous for more than a decade before the voice model existed
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - jondwillis 2y ago
        2003’s Lost In Translation opening scene would like a word.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
pjmorris 2y ago
I've got the same favorite line, it's pretty durable!
appplication 2y ago
Thank you for reminding me about Step Right Up. I recall hearing this on NPR and rushing home to download this on Limewire at least 20 years ago.
ants_everywhere 2y ago
I love Tom Waits, but I always just assumed he was doing an impression of the other raspy blues artists that came before like Willie Williams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1KV51qIdI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1KV51qIdI0 Howlin Wolf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ri7TcukAJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ri7TcukAJ8 or Screamin Jay Hawkins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGPhpvqtOc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGPhpvqtOc It surprises me a little because the Dorito commercial sounds like a fairly generic blues backing track and a raspy voiced singer. From the article, there's an indication that Doritos was looking to replicate the sound and feel of the song, and they were aware of the legal concern. But to me it kind of sounds like Tom Waits is doing an impersonation, the Doritos song is doing an impersonation, but it's not totally obvious from the song that the Doritos impersonation necessarily goes via Tom Waits rather than back to the original source material.
- jimmydddd 2y ago
  I didn't read the case, but in a lot of these type of cases, there are memos or emails that make the case more than if you were just listening to the commercial. Like in the Scarlett Johansson case where they reached out to her to do the voice. The may have had internal memos that called the commercial the "Tom Waits Commercial" or the like. They may have had internal legal memos advising that they could be sued, etc.
- wyclif 2y ago
  Also, Captain Beefheart.
  - ants_everywhere 2y ago
    A man of culture I see. Yeah, any of Captain Beefheart's more bluesy numbers he is doing thr same thing. Like Plastic Factory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soV8IcTzuj8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soV8IcTzuj8
    - wyclif 2y ago
      Totally underrated record. Trout Mask Replica gets all the love, but that one's an utter banger.
pwillia7 2y ago
Tired of being the life of the party Change your shorts, change your life Change your life, change into a 9 year old Hindu boy and get rid of your wife
oksurewhynot 2y ago
Yet another weird parallel: Scarlet Johansson did a cover album of Tom Waits songs in 2008

by pwil30 2y ago

ecjhdnc2025 2y ago

Her debut solo album was Waits and Waits/Brennan covers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anywhere_I_Lay_My_Head https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anywhere_I_Lay_My_Head Eclectic choices even for Waits songs. Though I'd like to hear her take on Poor Edward or Fish And Bird or Soldier's Things

tootie 2y ago
Speaking of which, Waits name drops KCRW Morning Becomes Eclectic which is still an outstanding way to hear new music. https://www.kcrw.com/music/shows/eclectic24 https://www.kcrw.com/music/shows/eclectic24
- ecjhdnc2025 2y ago
  I (a Brit) used to listen to this pretty much religiously in the Nic Harcourt days.

drewzero1 2y ago

> Can't help but see some parallels between this and current Scarlett Johansson vs. OpenAI debacle. I think that's why this was posted... I saw it referenced in a comment on that thread.

sandworm101 2y ago

The logical parallels might be there but in legal substance they are different cases. A deliberate replication of an artist's distinct singing voice, while singing lyrics associated with that artist, is very different than a passing similarity to someone's non-unique speaking voice. Note that the Johansson issue is playing out only in the court of public opinion.

sdenton4 2y ago
If you think they weren't trying to replicate sj's voice, I can only assume you've got open ai stock clouding your judgement... It looks like they caaaaarefully avoided writing down 'sound like sj' while choosing+directing a sound-alike actor for the role.
- sandworm101 2y ago
  >> If you think they weren't trying to replicate sj's voice Coevolution. The AI and the now-famous actor are the end products of a selection process aimed at a similar audience. The AI creators were likely aiming for the most attractive female voice, according to a bunch of young men. That parallels the process used by those casting action movies, which are also aimed at young men. It should be to nobody's great surprise that the end products of both share many features. What is very odd is how similar celeb faces actually are. There really is a mathematical standard for beauty when it comes to female faces, which is why so many celebs are have eerily identical proportions. There is probably a model too for voices. https://gotobeauty.com/plastic-surgery/how-math-shapes-modern-aesthetic-ideals/ https://gotobeauty.com/plastic-surgery/how-math-shapes-moder...
  - bluefirebrand 2y ago
    > Coevolution. The AI and the now-famous actor are the end products of a selection process aimed at a similar audience This might hold water if the actor weren't famous for more than a decade before the voice model existed
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - jondwillis 2y ago
      2003’s Lost In Translation opening scene would like a word.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

pjmorris 2y ago

I've got the same favorite line, it's pretty durable!

appplication 2y ago

Thank you for reminding me about Step Right Up. I recall hearing this on NPR and rushing home to download this on Limewire at least 20 years ago.

ants_everywhere 2y ago

I love Tom Waits, but I always just assumed he was doing an impression of the other raspy blues artists that came before like Willie Williams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1KV51qIdI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1KV51qIdI0 Howlin Wolf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ri7TcukAJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ri7TcukAJ8 or Screamin Jay Hawkins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGPhpvqtOc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGPhpvqtOc It surprises me a little because the Dorito commercial sounds like a fairly generic blues backing track and a raspy voiced singer. From the article, there's an indication that Doritos was looking to replicate the sound and feel of the song, and they were aware of the legal concern. But to me it kind of sounds like Tom Waits is doing an impersonation, the Doritos song is doing an impersonation, but it's not totally obvious from the song that the Doritos impersonation necessarily goes via Tom Waits rather than back to the original source material.

jimmydddd 2y ago
I didn't read the case, but in a lot of these type of cases, there are memos or emails that make the case more than if you were just listening to the commercial. Like in the Scarlett Johansson case where they reached out to her to do the voice. The may have had internal memos that called the commercial the "Tom Waits Commercial" or the like. They may have had internal legal memos advising that they could be sued, etc.
wyclif 2y ago
Also, Captain Beefheart.
- ants_everywhere 2y ago
  A man of culture I see. Yeah, any of Captain Beefheart's more bluesy numbers he is doing thr same thing. Like Plastic Factory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soV8IcTzuj8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soV8IcTzuj8
  - wyclif 2y ago
    Totally underrated record. Trout Mask Replica gets all the love, but that one's an utter banger.

pwillia7 2y ago

Tired of being the life of the party Change your shorts, change your life Change your life, change into a 9 year old Hindu boy and get rid of your wife

oksurewhynot 2y ago

Yet another weird parallel: Scarlet Johansson did a cover album of Tom Waits songs in 2008