20 ms·

Southwest Airlines now available on Google Flights

128 points by kk6mrp 2y ago

22c 2y ago
I didn't know they weren't listed on flight aggregator services and I almost certainly did not consider Southwest when flying to FL for this very reason. Seems to me that Southwest are learning the hard way that not being competitive and transparent with consumers about their pricing is bad for business.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  I’ve always had them at the bottom of my list because I like to pick my seat in advance. I also used to think Google flight search would show the lowest prices, but I recently saved a few hundred dollars by buying on Expedia. Same everything, just cheaper than even the airline’s website.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    I fly them exclusively in the US because of two free checked bags, no change fees, and anytime I have had a life event that required them extend non corporate grace (held the plane while trying to get to someone dying and I would’ve missed the door by a few minutes), they have been patient and humane. I’ll fly them until I die or they go out of business. Some brand value and corporate values are real.
- lxgr 2y ago
  I suspect that the commission that Google presumably gets for each referral played a much larger role than a desire to not be transparent. Google Flights is not just a search engine – they get paid by the airlines, as far as I know! As far as Southwest being listed on OTAs is concerned: I'm pretty sure they always have been, or I wouldn't have bought a ticket with them a while ago. They're just apparently not on all of them.
  - rockostrich 2y ago
    AFAIK they aren't on any OTAs. I just checked Expedia and Booking for a route that I know they have inventory on (PHL to DEN).
    - lxgr 2y ago
      Not sure what Chase Travel uses, but I booked a Southwest ticket on that back a few months ago.
- catapart 2y ago
  I don't know how you would have come to that conclusion, after reading the article? It says pretty plainly that the new government regulations, which force airlines to show all "additional" charges alongside the ticket price, means that Southwest's bundled price will now SHOW as cheaper, rather than showing as a larger base price (but less without the added additional 'baggage check' fees, or whatever) than other airlines. Basically, they took a principled stand to not show their prices in place where it would LOOK worse (without being worse) and they have stuck to it. The world changed to be more in alignment with their price honesty; they didn't cave to showing their prices unfairly in an effort to be more "competitive" or "transparent".
  - lxgr 2y ago
    > they took a principled stand to not show their prices in place where it would LOOK worse (without being worse) I bet they weren't too unhappy about not paying an agent/referral fee to these "price comparison sites" (that are really often travel agents themselves, or are at least getting a commission from those or the airline directly). For related reasons, Easyjet or Ryanair (I forgot which one) was not available for booking through the regular GDSes for the longest time, which made them unavailable for booking through traditional travel agents not directly integrating with their proprietary inventory system. I bet that was as much about not wanting to pay the incumbents' fees as much as it was about being "modern API forward".
    - catapart 2y ago
      "principled", in this context, meaning "they have rules that they have abided by", rather than "a set of rules that are morally just or otherwise generally appreciable for their merits". Not saying SW wasn't benefiting from the arrangement, or that they weren't playing coy for selfish reasons. Just saying that they had rules and stuck to them, rather than acquiescing to consumer forces as OP suggested.
    - pradn 2y ago
      Every commodity service like flights needs to be available through a standard API. We need to maximize the impact of market forces, via price discovery and then competition, for the benefit of passengers.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  > Seems to me that Southwest are learning the hard way that not being competitive and transparent with consumers about their pricing is bad for business. As the other comments said, that's highly doubtful. Also, you have to balance that against the fact that for many people (myself included) Southwest was always the first site I checked, specifically because they "trained" me to know I always had to go to their site, and that for many destinations they were by far the best option for me due to price and flight times, even given their "cattle call" seating.
impish9208 2y ago
I noticed this the other day when I saw SWA flights listed in the Chase Travel portal. Previously, you could only book directly from them.
- mfkp 2y ago
  The article mentioned that they have a special deal worked out specifically with Chase, so that would have been there previously.
_huayra_ 2y ago
Besides the 2 bags you get for free, the ability to rebook whenever you want and pay the difference / get a credit is so incredibly useful. I am not super well-versed on airline policies, but last time I looked, I think they were the only US airline that did this (at least for the economy class level of tickets). One neat trick: you can rebook your exact same itinerary if you see it cheaper and get the difference as a credit (for the Wanna Get Away class fares; if you booked with the pricier ones, you'll get it back as a refund to your credit card).
- brigade 2y ago
  Spirit just dropped change fees entirely, and the other 6 biggest airlines have dropped change fees except for their basic economy equivalents (normal economy is changeable for free.) But for checked bags they all still really want you to pay $95 annually for their cobranded credit cards. Now that Spirit dropped them, I wouldn’t be surprised if change fees get scrapped across the board soon given the upcoming requirement to advertise them upfront.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
CSSer 2y ago
This is going to sound like an ad, but I exclusively fly SW domestically. As noted, they used to look like a worse value but only because of the way competition handled fees. Couple this with the standard rewards program and I think SW is a steal. Did you know that SW is also the only domestic airline to have never filed bankruptcy? I’m glad to see the rest of the world being forced to compete more honestly. I’m sad to see that my convenient flights might get a little more crowded, but oh well!
- aaomidi 2y ago
  They're the only airline I use during non-peak travel. Peak travel time, they do shit the bed because of the same software that makes them so good. Also, they have one of the lowest rates of baggage lost, despite having free baggage lol.
- parl_match 2y ago
  I just can't put up with the unassigned seating zoo, lack of premium class options, and other niceties.
  - vasco 2y ago
    > unassigned seating zoo I never flew SW, can you or someone explain what the problem is with unassigned seats (what makes it a zoo)? I've used long distance trains and buses and it has been fine.
    - lvspiff 2y ago
      If you board in later groups (i.e. not one of the first 100 or so people) you are essentially stuck waiting in a line in a cramped isle for people to put their bags up and are likely to be relegated to a middle seat.
      - aaomidi 2y ago
        Also it means if you're a family, you're going to get split apart. However, it does mean that boarding is done significantly faster.
hnburnsy 2y ago
What was interesting is that Southwest has been part of GDS allowing agents and corporate travel bookers to compare fares. Always seemed consumer unfriendly.
- Nicholas_C 2y ago
  They would likely argue it’s more consumer friendly since they don’t have to pass the GDS fees onto non-business travelers via higher fares.
- cozzyd 2y ago
  indeed, their flights have always been visible on my employer's travel booker...
eiiot 2y ago
> Southwest even sues websites that display its schedules and fares without authorization Why does Southwest even have any jurisdiction here? It seems like they won a preliminary case, but don't we have established president that scraping websites is legal, thanks to hiQ Labs v. LinkedIn?
- nojvek 2y ago
  Would love to read more about it, anyone got link to the court case? Really thinking of doing a startup in scraping websites and turning it into filterable/sortable tables that can be queried via sql.
vikramkr 2y ago
Huh, I had no idea they weren't listed on these sites. I'd generally heard good things about them but they didn't really 'exist' as an option for me since I never saw a flight from them available. Wonder how many times I'd have chosen them if I knew/remembered they existed on a given route
avelis 2y ago
Southwest Airlines (SW) has still not made an investment in their scheduling and operations software and infrastructure. They will have more operational failures in the future if say a huge store system forces to many flights to be rescheduled. For something so critical to business continuity I find it astounding how little SW has done in that regard. SW also has lobbied alot to derail high speed rail in Texas. Although I am sure all airlines have done that to some degree.
- frakt0x90 2y ago
  How do you know what Southwest is investing in internally? Sounds like a large problem to solve that will take time. I haven't seen any info about this. Also, yeah all companies lobby against competition.
adam_arthur 2y ago
I've flown Southwest a few times out of necessity and it's always been a worse experience for me. I don't like the "hunger games" aspect of seating... I'd rather have the seat pre-selected and relax during boarding. I've also found it to be more expensive generally for the routes I fly. Everyone has their own preferences, but I wonder is there a tangible advantage to flying Southwest to those that prefer it?
- flying_kangaroo 2y ago
  I used to give preference to Southwest for cross-country (US) flights, partly because of availability on particular routes, but over other direct flights because of the boarding experience. For $15-20 (not sure what it is now) I could pay for the automated check-in and be near-guaranteed a seat in the A group that was better, for cheaper, than trying to get an equivalent seat at an airline where they were picked ahead of time.
  - adam_arthur 2y ago
    That makes sense if you prefer to be close to the front/exit for quick deplaning. I tend to just relax during both boarding/de-boarding since it's only a few minutes difference anyway and the effort/stress of trying to move quickly outweighs the few minutes savings. If the seat is pre-selected, I can simply wait for the line to go away and board last without standing for 10m. It seems to me that most people rush to board first even with pre-selected seating (perhaps optimizing for space in the overhead bins) If you have a connecting flight with a short layover, is the exception where I want to be right near the exit. So I guess it's more of a preference thing
- frakt0x90 2y ago
  It depends on the route obviously but I find Southwest prices to be comparable to other non low cost airlines like Delta, American, etc. The few occasions I got bit by the $200 change fee on the others has made me consider Southwest much more. I refuse to fly the super cheap airlines.
- lemoncucumber 2y ago
hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
tl;dr: Trains and boats are less terrible. Not SW-specific, but air travel generally: - Climate change: carbon footprint nearly 44% greater than a single occupancy vehicle but multiplied over thousands of miles - Monetized misery with short seat pitches, junk fees, and preferential treatment with $$$ - Inconsistent, sometimes terrible customer service (About 10 years ago, I was stuck at Heathrow but Virgin Atlantic once showed me how to and let me use their booking terminal directly to find a flight on any carrier. They definitely had customer service.) - Regular inconveniences like endless gate changes (AA pulled this 11x in 6 hours to me at DFW) - Sketchy maintenance practices like offshoring MRO - Close calls and ATC shortage
zzz999 2y ago
[dead]
xnx 2y ago
4 reasons I've avoided Southwest: 1) Not in Google Flights 2) Not seatback charging 3) More expensive (for my flights) 4) Boarding procedure . Now that the first 2 are fixed, I'll give them more consideration.

128 points by kk6mrp 2y ago

22c 2y ago

I didn't know they weren't listed on flight aggregator services and I almost certainly did not consider Southwest when flying to FL for this very reason. Seems to me that Southwest are learning the hard way that not being competitive and transparent with consumers about their pricing is bad for business.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
I’ve always had them at the bottom of my list because I like to pick my seat in advance. I also used to think Google flight search would show the lowest prices, but I recently saved a few hundred dollars by buying on Expedia. Same everything, just cheaper than even the airline’s website.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  I fly them exclusively in the US because of two free checked bags, no change fees, and anytime I have had a life event that required them extend non corporate grace (held the plane while trying to get to someone dying and I would’ve missed the door by a few minutes), they have been patient and humane. I’ll fly them until I die or they go out of business. Some brand value and corporate values are real.
lxgr 2y ago
I suspect that the commission that Google presumably gets for each referral played a much larger role than a desire to not be transparent. Google Flights is not just a search engine – they get paid by the airlines, as far as I know! As far as Southwest being listed on OTAs is concerned: I'm pretty sure they always have been, or I wouldn't have bought a ticket with them a while ago. They're just apparently not on all of them.
- rockostrich 2y ago
  AFAIK they aren't on any OTAs. I just checked Expedia and Booking for a route that I know they have inventory on (PHL to DEN).
  - lxgr 2y ago
    Not sure what Chase Travel uses, but I booked a Southwest ticket on that back a few months ago.
catapart 2y ago
I don't know how you would have come to that conclusion, after reading the article? It says pretty plainly that the new government regulations, which force airlines to show all "additional" charges alongside the ticket price, means that Southwest's bundled price will now SHOW as cheaper, rather than showing as a larger base price (but less without the added additional 'baggage check' fees, or whatever) than other airlines. Basically, they took a principled stand to not show their prices in place where it would LOOK worse (without being worse) and they have stuck to it. The world changed to be more in alignment with their price honesty; they didn't cave to showing their prices unfairly in an effort to be more "competitive" or "transparent".
- lxgr 2y ago
  > they took a principled stand to not show their prices in place where it would LOOK worse (without being worse) I bet they weren't too unhappy about not paying an agent/referral fee to these "price comparison sites" (that are really often travel agents themselves, or are at least getting a commission from those or the airline directly). For related reasons, Easyjet or Ryanair (I forgot which one) was not available for booking through the regular GDSes for the longest time, which made them unavailable for booking through traditional travel agents not directly integrating with their proprietary inventory system. I bet that was as much about not wanting to pay the incumbents' fees as much as it was about being "modern API forward".
  - catapart 2y ago
    "principled", in this context, meaning "they have rules that they have abided by", rather than "a set of rules that are morally just or otherwise generally appreciable for their merits". Not saying SW wasn't benefiting from the arrangement, or that they weren't playing coy for selfish reasons. Just saying that they had rules and stuck to them, rather than acquiescing to consumer forces as OP suggested.
  - pradn 2y ago
    Every commodity service like flights needs to be available through a standard API. We need to maximize the impact of market forces, via price discovery and then competition, for the benefit of passengers.
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
> Seems to me that Southwest are learning the hard way that not being competitive and transparent with consumers about their pricing is bad for business. As the other comments said, that's highly doubtful. Also, you have to balance that against the fact that for many people (myself included) Southwest was always the first site I checked, specifically because they "trained" me to know I always had to go to their site, and that for many destinations they were by far the best option for me due to price and flight times, even given their "cattle call" seating.

impish9208 2y ago

I noticed this the other day when I saw SWA flights listed in the Chase Travel portal. Previously, you could only book directly from them.

mfkp 2y ago
The article mentioned that they have a special deal worked out specifically with Chase, so that would have been there previously.

_huayra_ 2y ago

Besides the 2 bags you get for free, the ability to rebook whenever you want and pay the difference / get a credit is so incredibly useful. I am not super well-versed on airline policies, but last time I looked, I think they were the only US airline that did this (at least for the economy class level of tickets). One neat trick: you can rebook your exact same itinerary if you see it cheaper and get the difference as a credit (for the Wanna Get Away class fares; if you booked with the pricier ones, you'll get it back as a refund to your credit card).

brigade 2y ago
Spirit just dropped change fees entirely, and the other 6 biggest airlines have dropped change fees except for their basic economy equivalents (normal economy is changeable for free.) But for checked bags they all still really want you to pay $95 annually for their cobranded credit cards. Now that Spirit dropped them, I wouldn’t be surprised if change fees get scrapped across the board soon given the upcoming requirement to advertise them upfront.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

CSSer 2y ago

This is going to sound like an ad, but I exclusively fly SW domestically. As noted, they used to look like a worse value but only because of the way competition handled fees. Couple this with the standard rewards program and I think SW is a steal. Did you know that SW is also the only domestic airline to have never filed bankruptcy? I’m glad to see the rest of the world being forced to compete more honestly. I’m sad to see that my convenient flights might get a little more crowded, but oh well!

aaomidi 2y ago
They're the only airline I use during non-peak travel. Peak travel time, they do shit the bed because of the same software that makes them so good. Also, they have one of the lowest rates of baggage lost, despite having free baggage lol.
parl_match 2y ago
I just can't put up with the unassigned seating zoo, lack of premium class options, and other niceties.
- vasco 2y ago
  > unassigned seating zoo I never flew SW, can you or someone explain what the problem is with unassigned seats (what makes it a zoo)? I've used long distance trains and buses and it has been fine.
  - lvspiff 2y ago
    If you board in later groups (i.e. not one of the first 100 or so people) you are essentially stuck waiting in a line in a cramped isle for people to put their bags up and are likely to be relegated to a middle seat.
    - aaomidi 2y ago
      Also it means if you're a family, you're going to get split apart. However, it does mean that boarding is done significantly faster.

hnburnsy 2y ago

What was interesting is that Southwest has been part of GDS allowing agents and corporate travel bookers to compare fares. Always seemed consumer unfriendly.

Nicholas_C 2y ago
They would likely argue it’s more consumer friendly since they don’t have to pass the GDS fees onto non-business travelers via higher fares.
cozzyd 2y ago
indeed, their flights have always been visible on my employer's travel booker...

eiiot 2y ago

> Southwest even sues websites that display its schedules and fares without authorization Why does Southwest even have any jurisdiction here? It seems like they won a preliminary case, but don't we have established president that scraping websites is legal, thanks to hiQ Labs v. LinkedIn?

nojvek 2y ago
Would love to read more about it, anyone got link to the court case? Really thinking of doing a startup in scraping websites and turning it into filterable/sortable tables that can be queried via sql.

vikramkr 2y ago

Huh, I had no idea they weren't listed on these sites. I'd generally heard good things about them but they didn't really 'exist' as an option for me since I never saw a flight from them available. Wonder how many times I'd have chosen them if I knew/remembered they existed on a given route

avelis 2y ago

Southwest Airlines (SW) has still not made an investment in their scheduling and operations software and infrastructure. They will have more operational failures in the future if say a huge store system forces to many flights to be rescheduled. For something so critical to business continuity I find it astounding how little SW has done in that regard. SW also has lobbied alot to derail high speed rail in Texas. Although I am sure all airlines have done that to some degree.

frakt0x90 2y ago
How do you know what Southwest is investing in internally? Sounds like a large problem to solve that will take time. I haven't seen any info about this. Also, yeah all companies lobby against competition.

adam_arthur 2y ago

I've flown Southwest a few times out of necessity and it's always been a worse experience for me. I don't like the "hunger games" aspect of seating... I'd rather have the seat pre-selected and relax during boarding. I've also found it to be more expensive generally for the routes I fly. Everyone has their own preferences, but I wonder is there a tangible advantage to flying Southwest to those that prefer it?

flying_kangaroo 2y ago
I used to give preference to Southwest for cross-country (US) flights, partly because of availability on particular routes, but over other direct flights because of the boarding experience. For $15-20 (not sure what it is now) I could pay for the automated check-in and be near-guaranteed a seat in the A group that was better, for cheaper, than trying to get an equivalent seat at an airline where they were picked ahead of time.
- adam_arthur 2y ago
  That makes sense if you prefer to be close to the front/exit for quick deplaning. I tend to just relax during both boarding/de-boarding since it's only a few minutes difference anyway and the effort/stress of trying to move quickly outweighs the few minutes savings. If the seat is pre-selected, I can simply wait for the line to go away and board last without standing for 10m. It seems to me that most people rush to board first even with pre-selected seating (perhaps optimizing for space in the overhead bins) If you have a connecting flight with a short layover, is the exception where I want to be right near the exit. So I guess it's more of a preference thing
frakt0x90 2y ago
It depends on the route obviously but I find Southwest prices to be comparable to other non low cost airlines like Delta, American, etc. The few occasions I got bit by the $200 change fee on the others has made me consider Southwest much more. I refuse to fly the super cheap airlines.
lemoncucumber 2y ago

hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago

tl;dr: Trains and boats are less terrible. Not SW-specific, but air travel generally: - Climate change: carbon footprint nearly 44% greater than a single occupancy vehicle but multiplied over thousands of miles - Monetized misery with short seat pitches, junk fees, and preferential treatment with $$$ - Inconsistent, sometimes terrible customer service (About 10 years ago, I was stuck at Heathrow but Virgin Atlantic once showed me how to and let me use their booking terminal directly to find a flight on any carrier. They definitely had customer service.) - Regular inconveniences like endless gate changes (AA pulled this 11x in 6 hours to me at DFW) - Sketchy maintenance practices like offshoring MRO - Close calls and ATC shortage

zzz999 2y ago

[dead]

xnx 2y ago

4 reasons I've avoided Southwest: 1) Not in Google Flights 2) Not seatback charging 3) More expensive (for my flights) 4) Boarding procedure . Now that the first 2 are fixed, I'll give them more consideration.