4 ms·

This will be used as a template by the entertainment industry to screw over so many people.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Uehreka 2y ago
How? This kind of thing is already illegal. If I’m producing a commercial for Joe’s Hot Dogs, and I hire a voice actor who sounds like Morgan Freeman, and he never says “I’m Morgan Freeman” but he’s the main voice in the commercial and the cartoon character he’s voicing looks like Morgan Freeman… well, many consumers will be confused into thinking Morgan Freeman likes Joe’s Hot Dogs, and that’s a violation of Morgan Freeman’s trademark.
- kylebenzle 2y ago
  [flagged]
- throwawaymaths 2y ago
  no, that's definitely not illegal. Voices are not trademarkable, only jingles (melody, words + tone), and of course specific recordings of voices are copyrighted. The ONLY way they get in trouble is if they claim to be Morgan Freeman.
  - zerocrates 2y ago
    "Trademark" is not the correct way to talk about it, but commercial use of an impersonation can be a breach of the right of publicity, even if they don't actually say they're the person.
  - thehappypm 2y ago
    A reasonable person would assume that the voice in the commercial is Morgan Freeman, which could be very problematic for the commercial maker.
    - throwawaymaths 2y ago
      How do commerical Elvis impersonators (or commercial Elvis impersonators in commercials) get away with it?
      - thehappypm 2y ago
        Because no reasonable person thinks it’s actually Elvis.
  - fakedang 2y ago
    Voices may not be trademarkable but I'm pretty sure styles and intonations are.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
    > Voices are not trademarkable But they are subject to right of publicity in many US jurisdictions. Which, while more like trademark than copyright (the other thing that keeps getting raised as if it should dispose of this issue), is its own area of law, distinct from either trademark or copyright. > The ONLY way they get in trouble is if they claim to be Morgan Freeman. That’s…not true. Though such an explicit claim would definitely be a way that they could get in trouble.
    - throwawaymaths 2y ago
      > In the United States, no federal statute or case law recognizes the right of publicity, although federal unfair competition law recognizes a related statutory right to protection against false endorsement, association, or affiliation https://www.inta.org/topics/right-of-publicity/#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20no,endorsement%2C%20association%2C%20or%20affiliation https://www.inta.org/topics/right-of-publicity/#:~:text=In%2....
      - dragonwriter 2y ago
        The important word in that quote is “federal”. In the US, right of publicity is a state law right in many states (often of particular note because of the concentration of tech and entertainment industries, it is a state law right in California.)
- nilamo 2y ago
  Which part of that is illegal? Because I don't see anything.
  - ShrimpHawk 2y ago
    It's in the very article > He compared Johansson’s case to one brought by the singer Bette Midler against the Ford Motor Company in the 1980s. Ford asked Midler to use her voice in ads. After she declined, Ford hired an impersonator. The U.S. appellate courts ruled in Midler’s favor, indicating her voice was protected against unauthorized use.
    - m348e912 2y ago
      There's a gray area. If Ford Motor Company hired an actor happened to sound a lot like Bette Midler using their normal speaking voice, Ford would have had a much better chance in defending their case. As I understand it, that's essentially OpenAI's defense here.
      - CRConrad 2y ago
        Which they themselves have totally undermined.
    - nilamo 2y ago
      So if I happen to sound like Tom Hanks, anyone recording me in passing would be breaking the law? How does anyone see that as reasonable?
      - pnt12 2y ago
        That's a bit of a strawman: you're twisting the scope and arguing for it. A more similar context would be: they ask Tom Hanks to create a voice similar to Woody, the cowboy from Toy Story . Tom Hanks says no, Disney says no. Then they ask you to voice their cowboy voice. It's obviously related: they tried the OG, failed, they're going for a copycat after. But if never approached Tom Hanks or Disney, then there would be room for deniability - without mentions to real names, it would require someone to judge if it's an unauthorized copycat or just a random actor voicing a random cowboy voice. It was a bad play from their part.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

How? This kind of thing is already illegal. If I’m producing a commercial for Joe’s Hot Dogs, and I hire a voice actor who sounds like Morgan Freeman, and he never says “I’m Morgan Freeman” but he’s the main voice in the commercial and the cartoon character he’s voicing looks like Morgan Freeman… well, many consumers will be confused into thinking Morgan Freeman likes Joe’s Hot Dogs, and that’s a violation of Morgan Freeman’s trademark.

kylebenzle 2y ago
[flagged]
throwawaymaths 2y ago
no, that's definitely not illegal. Voices are not trademarkable, only jingles (melody, words + tone), and of course specific recordings of voices are copyrighted. The ONLY way they get in trouble is if they claim to be Morgan Freeman.
- zerocrates 2y ago
  "Trademark" is not the correct way to talk about it, but commercial use of an impersonation can be a breach of the right of publicity, even if they don't actually say they're the person.
- thehappypm 2y ago
  A reasonable person would assume that the voice in the commercial is Morgan Freeman, which could be very problematic for the commercial maker.
  - throwawaymaths 2y ago
    How do commerical Elvis impersonators (or commercial Elvis impersonators in commercials) get away with it?
    - thehappypm 2y ago
      Because no reasonable person thinks it’s actually Elvis.
- fakedang 2y ago
  Voices may not be trademarkable but I'm pretty sure styles and intonations are.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  > Voices are not trademarkable But they are subject to right of publicity in many US jurisdictions. Which, while more like trademark than copyright (the other thing that keeps getting raised as if it should dispose of this issue), is its own area of law, distinct from either trademark or copyright. > The ONLY way they get in trouble is if they claim to be Morgan Freeman. That’s…not true. Though such an explicit claim would definitely be a way that they could get in trouble.
  - throwawaymaths 2y ago
    > In the United States, no federal statute or case law recognizes the right of publicity, although federal unfair competition law recognizes a related statutory right to protection against false endorsement, association, or affiliation https://www.inta.org/topics/right-of-publicity/#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20no,endorsement%2C%20association%2C%20or%20affiliation https://www.inta.org/topics/right-of-publicity/#:~:text=In%2....
    - dragonwriter 2y ago
      The important word in that quote is “federal”. In the US, right of publicity is a state law right in many states (often of particular note because of the concentration of tech and entertainment industries, it is a state law right in California.)
nilamo 2y ago
Which part of that is illegal? Because I don't see anything.
- ShrimpHawk 2y ago
  It's in the very article > He compared Johansson’s case to one brought by the singer Bette Midler against the Ford Motor Company in the 1980s. Ford asked Midler to use her voice in ads. After she declined, Ford hired an impersonator. The U.S. appellate courts ruled in Midler’s favor, indicating her voice was protected against unauthorized use.
  - m348e912 2y ago
    There's a gray area. If Ford Motor Company hired an actor happened to sound a lot like Bette Midler using their normal speaking voice, Ford would have had a much better chance in defending their case. As I understand it, that's essentially OpenAI's defense here.
    - CRConrad 2y ago
      Which they themselves have totally undermined.
  - nilamo 2y ago
    So if I happen to sound like Tom Hanks, anyone recording me in passing would be breaking the law? How does anyone see that as reasonable?
    - pnt12 2y ago
      That's a bit of a strawman: you're twisting the scope and arguing for it. A more similar context would be: they ask Tom Hanks to create a voice similar to Woody, the cowboy from Toy Story . Tom Hanks says no, Disney says no. Then they ask you to voice their cowboy voice. It's obviously related: they tried the OG, failed, they're going for a copycat after. But if never approached Tom Hanks or Disney, then there would be room for deniability - without mentions to real names, it would require someone to judge if it's an unauthorized copycat or just a random actor voicing a random cowboy voice. It was a bad play from their part.