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I taught "College Algebra" at a Big Ten university for one semester, 25+ years ago, when I was in between jobs. The Freshmen took a math test during orientatio

I taught "College Algebra" at a Big Ten university for one semester, 25+ years ago, when I was in between jobs. The Freshmen took a math test during orientation and were slotted into either Remedial, College Algebra, or Calculus. It's my understanding that the curriculum of College Algebra is the bare minimum of topics that must be taught in order to offer the course for credit at an accredited college. This explains why the topics are seemingly drawn at random, with little flexibility. The lower level "remedial" courses were offered but did not come with credit. You still had to pass College Algebra in order to graduate. Or I think maybe Statistics. The education system has struggled to teach math since time immoral. Every generation tries some new method, and is ultimately declared a failure. I don't have a good answer. Most adults retain barely any of their high school or college math, including people in STEM occupations. I've heard "I'm not really a math person" from engineers. Parents remember how their math was taught, and complain when their kids aren't learning math the same way, but frankly the parents are terrible at math.

MattGaiser 2y ago
> Most adults retain barely any of their high school or college math, including people in STEM occupations. I've heard "I'm not really a math person" from engineers. I studied computer and electrical engineering, so we had tons of math heavy physics and math in there. But since university, I haven’t done anything beyond algebra and statistics. Not for an hour. And if I were say a product manager, would I have done any algebra since university? Adults don’t retain math as very few use it with any regularity, and certainly not without calculators. Same thing happens with literacy. Professions that don’t use reading/writing regularly see the skills of people employed in those roles atrophy. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5873757 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5873757
- gonzo41 2y ago
  This comes as no shock at all. I stopped regularly running long distances and now i have to build up the skill again.
- hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
  C. 1995, I aced the SAT-I math section (/800) cold with zero prep at a time when I was taking AP Calculus BC (5.0/5.0 on that too). BS CS/EE but stopped there because there wasn't really any benefit going on. If a gun were put to my head, I'd like to think I would be able to reteach myself how to derive the time-dependent hydrogen 1s PDF. I don't know the last time I used an integral or manipulated a PDE, but have had to use vectors and kernels now and then. I'm lazy, so I would probably use Mathematica or Giac if anything hurt my brain and couldn't be entered easily on an HP 48 (emulator). I'm kind of annoyed when people without degrees and with liberal arts majors are making $400k-$1M in the same job I'm in (when employed), and annoyed at myself for bothering pay the establishment years and $70k for nothing of value.
- richrichie 2y ago
  Math is a language. A foreign language. If you don't speak it regularly, it goes away.
enthdegree 2y ago
you mean immemorial, not immoral.
- jandrese 2y ago
  Hey, it was the 60s.
- dgacmu 2y ago
  The immoral part is how badly many elementary through high schools teach math. As a math-adjacent (CS) professor, it was painful to watch my daughter's math experience at her first elementary school. Part of the reason she's not there any more, in fact.
dunham 2y ago
I had someone on my dorm floor in college tell me that they were terrible at math, but it didn't matter because they were going into elementary education.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  I worked at a motel during college. One of my coworkers was an elementary ed major. One of her class's homework was making a basic addition worksheet targeted at, I dunno, maybe 1st graders. It was a page of things like "3 + 5 =" and "4 + 2 =". She asked me to proofread it. I looked at it for the 10 seconds it took to scan a page of single-digit addition questions and told her it was fine. She was indignant that I "wasn't taking it seriously". "What do you mean? I proofread it for you." "You couldn't have even looked! No one can do math that quickly!" Uhhh... That was far from the only interaction we had like that. It wasn't a one-time mental fog. I dreaded the fact that one day she'd be teaching our kids. (This doesn't reflect my general opinion of elementary ed teachers. It's horrid that this lady could have made it as far as being a senior in college. The school was doing her, and her future students, a huge disservice.)
  - BeFlatXIII 2y ago
    My general experience with elementary ed classmates in college matches yours (but not my memories of my actual elementary teachers). Students studying to teach other grades may be over specialized, biased, or vindictive, but being a brainless airhead who was "good with kids" was an elementary ed specialty.
scrapcode 2y ago
In my experience, and I honestly haven't put much thought into this, but the 'marketing' behind math is pretty bad and I'm not sure if I have any good ideas. For kids like me, that quite frankly didn't give a shit about anything, it was hard to realize how anything I was learning would help me in my future - especially with complex mathematics. Later in life I realized how it opens up a greater understanding of almost anything, and can be a super power akin to mastering MS Excel in the corporate world.

MattGaiser 2y ago

> Most adults retain barely any of their high school or college math, including people in STEM occupations. I've heard "I'm not really a math person" from engineers. I studied computer and electrical engineering, so we had tons of math heavy physics and math in there. But since university, I haven’t done anything beyond algebra and statistics. Not for an hour. And if I were say a product manager, would I have done any algebra since university? Adults don’t retain math as very few use it with any regularity, and certainly not without calculators. Same thing happens with literacy. Professions that don’t use reading/writing regularly see the skills of people employed in those roles atrophy. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5873757 https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5873757

gonzo41 2y ago
This comes as no shock at all. I stopped regularly running long distances and now i have to build up the skill again.
hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
C. 1995, I aced the SAT-I math section (/800) cold with zero prep at a time when I was taking AP Calculus BC (5.0/5.0 on that too). BS CS/EE but stopped there because there wasn't really any benefit going on. If a gun were put to my head, I'd like to think I would be able to reteach myself how to derive the time-dependent hydrogen 1s PDF. I don't know the last time I used an integral or manipulated a PDE, but have had to use vectors and kernels now and then. I'm lazy, so I would probably use Mathematica or Giac if anything hurt my brain and couldn't be entered easily on an HP 48 (emulator). I'm kind of annoyed when people without degrees and with liberal arts majors are making $400k-$1M in the same job I'm in (when employed), and annoyed at myself for bothering pay the establishment years and $70k for nothing of value.
richrichie 2y ago
Math is a language. A foreign language. If you don't speak it regularly, it goes away.

enthdegree 2y ago

you mean immemorial, not immoral.

jandrese 2y ago
Hey, it was the 60s.
dgacmu 2y ago
The immoral part is how badly many elementary through high schools teach math. As a math-adjacent (CS) professor, it was painful to watch my daughter's math experience at her first elementary school. Part of the reason she's not there any more, in fact.

dunham 2y ago

I had someone on my dorm floor in college tell me that they were terrible at math, but it didn't matter because they were going into elementary education.

kstrauser 2y ago
I worked at a motel during college. One of my coworkers was an elementary ed major. One of her class's homework was making a basic addition worksheet targeted at, I dunno, maybe 1st graders. It was a page of things like "3 + 5 =" and "4 + 2 =". She asked me to proofread it. I looked at it for the 10 seconds it took to scan a page of single-digit addition questions and told her it was fine. She was indignant that I "wasn't taking it seriously". "What do you mean? I proofread it for you." "You couldn't have even looked! No one can do math that quickly!" Uhhh... That was far from the only interaction we had like that. It wasn't a one-time mental fog. I dreaded the fact that one day she'd be teaching our kids. (This doesn't reflect my general opinion of elementary ed teachers. It's horrid that this lady could have made it as far as being a senior in college. The school was doing her, and her future students, a huge disservice.)
- BeFlatXIII 2y ago
  My general experience with elementary ed classmates in college matches yours (but not my memories of my actual elementary teachers). Students studying to teach other grades may be over specialized, biased, or vindictive, but being a brainless airhead who was "good with kids" was an elementary ed specialty.

scrapcode 2y ago

In my experience, and I honestly haven't put much thought into this, but the 'marketing' behind math is pretty bad and I'm not sure if I have any good ideas. For kids like me, that quite frankly didn't give a shit about anything, it was hard to realize how anything I was learning would help me in my future - especially with complex mathematics. Later in life I realized how it opens up a greater understanding of almost anything, and can be a super power akin to mastering MS Excel in the corporate world.