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Many things in the past were "not up for discussion" until they were. Society can change. > densely nutritious No, plant products are far more dense in propor

Many things in the past were "not up for discussion" until they were. Society can change. > densely nutritious No, plant products are far more dense in proportion to water, fertilizer, land, and energy used to produce them. 10x the plants are required to get 1x the meat.

dyauspitr 2y ago
Yes, but you have to eat more plants and the amino acid spectrum is not always complete. An equivalent amount of red meat has 40% more protein than chickpeas, 400% more than green peas and 300% more than lentils.
- colordrops 2y ago
  Protein isolate powder has more protein than red meat, so you should be eating that, not meat, by this measure. * The density of protein is not important at all. What is important is that you get the sufficient daily amount of protein, which is easily achievable by eating plant-based foods only. * It is a myth that the "amino acid spectrum" is not always complete. Plants contain all essential amino acids, and as long as you aren't on a strict white-rice diet, you'll get everything you need from a modest variety of foods. Please stop spreading misinformation.
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  And the equivalent calories of red meat has 50% the protein of seitan. At equivalent mass, red meat has 30% the protein of seitan. If you're going to pick one nutrient of comparison (which doesn't even make sense since we need more than protein), why wouldn't you compare foods that are dense in that nutrient? Would you accept someone comparing tofu to pig skin to conclude that plants massively dominate animal flesh in protein?
  - dyauspitr 2y ago
    Chickpeas were the most nutrient dense plant protein I could think of. I hadn't heard of seitan before this comment and looking into the amino acids it provides shows that it’s not nutritionally complete.
    - hombre_fatal 2y ago
      Can you give me the definition of nutritionally complete that applies to seitan but not red meat considering that seitan, at the same amount of calories, is more amino acid dense than a steak according to Cronometer? Let's pretend you can only eat 500 calories per day (which is usually part of the weird implication in these claims). Seitan gives you 100%+ of all EAAs except one (70%). A steak gives you 100%+ of the EAAs except for three (85%, 80%, 77%). Seitan also contains double the total protein of the steak. Wouldn't you have the bite the bullet on steak being nutritionally deficient if seitan is? If that's not good enough for you, we could look at another protein dense plant-based food: TVP aka soy chunks. 500 calories of soy chunks have 100%+ of the EAAs, 25g more protein than steak, in 50g less food than steak.
freshpretzels 2y ago
Then leave it to the market to decide. If people need to be coerced into it or forced, they don’t want what you are selling.
- colordrops 2y ago
  I'm fine with that. All protection laws and subsidies for meat and dairy should disappear. They are huge in the US.
  - freshpretzels 2y ago
    There are protections and subsidies for all produce as far as I’m aware. This is to ensure stability and consistency of production volume and to prevent any one-off bad seasons from ruining the farmers. I’m okay with more production of fresh produce so that people can get as many calories as they want from vegetables and fruits and eggs.
AngryData 2y ago
But then you have plants like alfalfa which require no fertilizer, no pesticides, create extra fertilizer in the soil, and can easily be grown in excess on the massive amounts of farmland that require zero irrigation.

dyauspitr 2y ago

Yes, but you have to eat more plants and the amino acid spectrum is not always complete. An equivalent amount of red meat has 40% more protein than chickpeas, 400% more than green peas and 300% more than lentils.

colordrops 2y ago
Protein isolate powder has more protein than red meat, so you should be eating that, not meat, by this measure. * The density of protein is not important at all. What is important is that you get the sufficient daily amount of protein, which is easily achievable by eating plant-based foods only. * It is a myth that the "amino acid spectrum" is not always complete. Plants contain all essential amino acids, and as long as you aren't on a strict white-rice diet, you'll get everything you need from a modest variety of foods. Please stop spreading misinformation.
hombre_fatal 2y ago
And the equivalent calories of red meat has 50% the protein of seitan. At equivalent mass, red meat has 30% the protein of seitan. If you're going to pick one nutrient of comparison (which doesn't even make sense since we need more than protein), why wouldn't you compare foods that are dense in that nutrient? Would you accept someone comparing tofu to pig skin to conclude that plants massively dominate animal flesh in protein?
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  Chickpeas were the most nutrient dense plant protein I could think of. I hadn't heard of seitan before this comment and looking into the amino acids it provides shows that it’s not nutritionally complete.
  - hombre_fatal 2y ago
    Can you give me the definition of nutritionally complete that applies to seitan but not red meat considering that seitan, at the same amount of calories, is more amino acid dense than a steak according to Cronometer? Let's pretend you can only eat 500 calories per day (which is usually part of the weird implication in these claims). Seitan gives you 100%+ of all EAAs except one (70%). A steak gives you 100%+ of the EAAs except for three (85%, 80%, 77%). Seitan also contains double the total protein of the steak. Wouldn't you have the bite the bullet on steak being nutritionally deficient if seitan is? If that's not good enough for you, we could look at another protein dense plant-based food: TVP aka soy chunks. 500 calories of soy chunks have 100%+ of the EAAs, 25g more protein than steak, in 50g less food than steak.

freshpretzels 2y ago

Then leave it to the market to decide. If people need to be coerced into it or forced, they don’t want what you are selling.

colordrops 2y ago
I'm fine with that. All protection laws and subsidies for meat and dairy should disappear. They are huge in the US.
- freshpretzels 2y ago
  There are protections and subsidies for all produce as far as I’m aware. This is to ensure stability and consistency of production volume and to prevent any one-off bad seasons from ruining the farmers. I’m okay with more production of fresh produce so that people can get as many calories as they want from vegetables and fruits and eggs.

AngryData 2y ago

But then you have plants like alfalfa which require no fertilizer, no pesticides, create extra fertilizer in the soil, and can easily be grown in excess on the massive amounts of farmland that require zero irrigation.