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> If you provide all resources to people to enjoy opiates - they will have no incentive to quit. Many people, including myself, quit smoking normal cigarettes

> If you provide all resources to people to enjoy opiates - they will have no incentive to quit. Many people, including myself, quit smoking normal cigarettes although it was highly addictive, because it was bad for health, not because of legality or cost. Of course opiates are a very different beast, but the point is that if someone wants to get drugs they will succeed, period. Expecting them to disappear just because they are made illegal is 100% fantasy. Legalizing drugs would move their production and sale in the open and more regulated markets, with less risks of them being made by improvised chemists in their basement, plus lower costs and much less involvement by organized crime which once prices drop would move to more lucrative businesses. remember what happened in the US when alcohol was banned: people searching for drinks would still find where to buy them, but it was organized crime that started making profits out of the ban.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
> Of course opiates are a very different beast, but the point is that if someone wants to get drugs they will succeed, period. Are you suggesting there should be no controlled chemicals? No pharmacist? >Expecting them to disappear just because they are made illegal is 100% fantasy. What if the expectation is for fewer people to use less of them due to higher hurdles?
- squarefoot 2y ago
  > Are you suggesting there should be no controlled chemicals? No pharmacist? No, that was not my point. > What if the expectation is for fewer people to use less of them due to higher hurdles? That's the very reason why "first dose is free". Many people are sucked into drugs consumption either for fun at parties or because they're lured into substances by "friends". Unfortunately, once they're dependent it's too late to put obstacles on their way.
- beaeglebeachedd 2y ago
  >Are you suggesting there should be no controlled chemicals? No pharmacist This is what I advocate for. Probably way more killed by regulation here than saved. I recall accompanying someone in Mexico who had to get their life saving asthma medication in one of those unregulated pharmacies that don't ask questions, because they can't afford to see a doctor to get a prescription.
graeme 2y ago
Prohibition dramatically reduced drinking. 70% initially then 30% long run: https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w3675/w3675.pdf https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w3675/w3675... And alcohol can be used in quite a benign way. Good reason to think opioids would see an even larger decline as they are high impact and unlikely to be openly consumed for group socialization the way alcohol is. You can argue for legalization but it is a fallacy to believe that prohibiting something is bad if you can't eliminate it 100%.
- Gud 2y ago
  And did the problem drinkers quit drinking or the casual drinkers?
  - phone8675309 2y ago
    Which is better for habitual, problem opiate users: a) they can get a clean supply of their drugs, a safe place to do them, medical support if they encounter issues, and connection to treatment programs and social services even if they keep using or b) they cannot get a clean supply of their drugs and needles which means increased spread of HIV and hepatitis (both preventable diseases), increased chance of interaction and overdose due to adulteration, active pressure to not admit use or seek addiction treatment for fear of criminal punishment, and active exclusion from social services? Yes, not _everyone_ will stop using opiates if they’re made legal. THAT'S THE POINT - more users will quit when provided resources and the ones who don’t quit are better off than they were before while they work toward sobriety if they choose.
    - Gud 2y ago
      I think you’re responding to the wrong person.

lotsofpulp 2y ago

> Of course opiates are a very different beast, but the point is that if someone wants to get drugs they will succeed, period. Are you suggesting there should be no controlled chemicals? No pharmacist? >Expecting them to disappear just because they are made illegal is 100% fantasy. What if the expectation is for fewer people to use less of them due to higher hurdles?

squarefoot 2y ago
> Are you suggesting there should be no controlled chemicals? No pharmacist? No, that was not my point. > What if the expectation is for fewer people to use less of them due to higher hurdles? That's the very reason why "first dose is free". Many people are sucked into drugs consumption either for fun at parties or because they're lured into substances by "friends". Unfortunately, once they're dependent it's too late to put obstacles on their way.
beaeglebeachedd 2y ago
>Are you suggesting there should be no controlled chemicals? No pharmacist This is what I advocate for. Probably way more killed by regulation here than saved. I recall accompanying someone in Mexico who had to get their life saving asthma medication in one of those unregulated pharmacies that don't ask questions, because they can't afford to see a doctor to get a prescription.

graeme 2y ago

Prohibition dramatically reduced drinking. 70% initially then 30% long run: https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w3675/w3675.pdf https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w3675/w3675... And alcohol can be used in quite a benign way. Good reason to think opioids would see an even larger decline as they are high impact and unlikely to be openly consumed for group socialization the way alcohol is. You can argue for legalization but it is a fallacy to believe that prohibiting something is bad if you can't eliminate it 100%.

Gud 2y ago
And did the problem drinkers quit drinking or the casual drinkers?
- phone8675309 2y ago
  Which is better for habitual, problem opiate users: a) they can get a clean supply of their drugs, a safe place to do them, medical support if they encounter issues, and connection to treatment programs and social services even if they keep using or b) they cannot get a clean supply of their drugs and needles which means increased spread of HIV and hepatitis (both preventable diseases), increased chance of interaction and overdose due to adulteration, active pressure to not admit use or seek addiction treatment for fear of criminal punishment, and active exclusion from social services? Yes, not _everyone_ will stop using opiates if they’re made legal. THAT'S THE POINT - more users will quit when provided resources and the ones who don’t quit are better off than they were before while they work toward sobriety if they choose.
  - Gud 2y ago
    I think you’re responding to the wrong person.