4 ms·

You're forgetting the tremendous number of homeless who simply die. Also, the US is incapable of even reproducing itself, which falls far short of my definitio

You're forgetting the tremendous number of homeless who simply die. Also, the US is incapable of even reproducing itself, which falls far short of my definition of "works."

chaostheory 2y ago
I'm not forgetting them. They fall into the category of 20% of the homeless who are mentally ill, and who need to be supervised in a safe medical facility. However, we cannot do that without their consent, and they will not give their consent in the majority of cases for the same reasons that they refuse help from government programs and non-profits. I'm also not sure that these people, suffering from mental illnesses like schizophrenia, are cognizant enough for giving consent.
- QuarterReptile 2y ago
  >However, we cannot do that without their consent >they will not give their consent in the majority of cases for the same reasons that they refuse help from government programs and non-profits. ...because of the underlying mental illness. Do you really believe that you can get consent from this group of people who you say should be in medical facilities, when they have self-sorted into that group mostly by being too unwilling or unable to conform to any rules or structures?
  - chaostheory 2y ago
    No, which is exactly why I pointed it out as a problem.
ohmyiv 2y ago
> You're forgetting the tremendous number of homeless who simply die. A lot of that is exactly for the reason the previous comment points out: mental health issues that unhoused people refuse to get treated. As someone who now works in that field, that person is correct. There is no way for case managers to "make" them get help. If the person is having a non-violent incident, then no one can really assist unless the person wants help. Even in some violent cases, police and PETs (Psychiatric Emergency Teams) can't help. I work with the unhoused in LA, a city with one of the highest unhoused population counts. There is very little we can do if the people don't want help, which is a bigger majority than you assume. We also have a housing shortage for people that can afford rent, let alone landlords willing to help the unhoused. You make it sound easy, but it seems to me, you actually have no real experience in the field, which may be fine. But don't say a system isn't working when the services system can't help those that really need it. Sure, maybe the US government can do more. They provide a lot of our funding and we also get a lot of assistance from private donors. But at this point it's yelling into the wind. Without fully supportive communities and government assistance, we're really moving nowhere. And it isn't just some shortcomings of the government. It's also private property NIMBY types that don't want services in their area. Example: our main office is in the Venice/Santa Monica area. We have rules and regulations brought upon by local NIMBYs on what time we can be there, who can be there, what services we can provide, and more. So while we help the unhoused in that area, we have offices elsewhere that some clients can't make it to, which reduces the assistance they are able to receive. So while it's easy to say "it isn't working", how hard has everyone else really tried? I don't see many people quitting their dev jobs to make 1/2, sometimes 1/4 of the wage to do a more strenuous job. The only reason I did is because the agency I now work for also helped me when I was on the streets and they're willing to pay me more because of my lived experience. I still do web dev and IT stuff on the side to make up some of the wages I lost transitioning, but it was somewhat difficult to adjust to. So, what are your experiences helping the unhoused? How have you been able to help those around you? How were you able to help those that refused? Do you have a contact list of agencies that may help theunhoused? If so, can we collaborate so hopefully more people can get assistance? Well, maybe not, since you're probably in a different part of the world than me, but here's a starting point for the LA area: https://www.lahsa.org/get-help https://www.lahsa.org/get-help. Also on that site is a careers page that has a full listing of agencies in the different SPAs in LA county. But if you know of national agencies that can assist the unhoused population, please, let me know. We are in dire need of real assistance, not empty words. Edit: spelling
- QuarterReptile 2y ago
  We would, as a culture, have to make and act on the value judgment that dying in the streets, paired with all the other social ills that accompany having long-term homelessness, is sufficiently bad to justify involuntarily committing the mentally ill to secure facilities. Do you see that happening?
  - ohmyiv 2y ago
    That doesn't have to happen when locals can help their local community. Do you see yourself trying to bring community together to help? Have you tried discussing homelessness with public fugures? Celebrities? Anyone besides complaining that nothing works? Grassroots movements start at a local area and grow, particularly where government doesnt help. What have you done besides make an excuse for taking action? Do you really think that being a random person complaining on the internet is actually helping the people you say need help? I noticed you didn't answer any of my questions. Just filled space with empty words. Again, I ask, what have you done to help unhoused people? Besides finding excuses why it won't happen, then complaining nothing gets done. What you don't seem to understand is sitting around comfy and cozy in your residence complaining about stuff doesn't actually solve anything. What needs to happen is individuals, such as yourself, actually need to try and help the unhoused instead of crying that the government doesn't do enough or that people as a whole will never make it happen. How much of your life has actually been spent assist8ng others instead of being cynical and doubting? How many excuses have you made up in order to not help? I get that complaining on the internet is "cool" nowadays, but with society growing larger, we need more people to help instead of crying and whining about every step of the process (see my previous comment about NIMBYs). But everyone just wants to complain and be seen as someone who cares instead of actually doing it. So again, what have you done to help? Because being upset nothing/not enough is being done and finding excuses to not do anything is quite frankly, useless.
    - QuarterReptile 2y ago
      I don't think I purported to solve anything, nor was I particularly upset. Disappointed or resigned, probably. I think we've denied ourselves the possibility of fixing anything. I could probably be convinced of the possibility of meaningful improvement, but I'm mostly skeptical. I don't really do anything, other than giving food and whatever else the food pantry people ask for. I guess I theoretically try to improve the homeless vet problem, before they're vets...
QuarterReptile 2y ago
>Also, the US is incapable of even reproducing itself, which falls far short of my definition of "works." Not to say this is a non-issue (it's hugely important), but it seems a bit odd in a context where Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Sub-Saharan Africa (plus a few central Asian and South American nations) hadn't really been invoked

You're forgetting the tremendous number of homeless who simply die. Also, the US is incapable of even reproducing itself, which falls far short of my definition of "works."

chaostheory 2y ago

I'm not forgetting them. They fall into the category of 20% of the homeless who are mentally ill, and who need to be supervised in a safe medical facility. However, we cannot do that without their consent, and they will not give their consent in the majority of cases for the same reasons that they refuse help from government programs and non-profits. I'm also not sure that these people, suffering from mental illnesses like schizophrenia, are cognizant enough for giving consent.

QuarterReptile 2y ago
>However, we cannot do that without their consent >they will not give their consent in the majority of cases for the same reasons that they refuse help from government programs and non-profits. ...because of the underlying mental illness. Do you really believe that you can get consent from this group of people who you say should be in medical facilities, when they have self-sorted into that group mostly by being too unwilling or unable to conform to any rules or structures?
- chaostheory 2y ago
  No, which is exactly why I pointed it out as a problem.

ohmyiv 2y ago

> You're forgetting the tremendous number of homeless who simply die. A lot of that is exactly for the reason the previous comment points out: mental health issues that unhoused people refuse to get treated. As someone who now works in that field, that person is correct. There is no way for case managers to "make" them get help. If the person is having a non-violent incident, then no one can really assist unless the person wants help. Even in some violent cases, police and PETs (Psychiatric Emergency Teams) can't help. I work with the unhoused in LA, a city with one of the highest unhoused population counts. There is very little we can do if the people don't want help, which is a bigger majority than you assume. We also have a housing shortage for people that can afford rent, let alone landlords willing to help the unhoused. You make it sound easy, but it seems to me, you actually have no real experience in the field, which may be fine. But don't say a system isn't working when the services system can't help those that really need it. Sure, maybe the US government can do more. They provide a lot of our funding and we also get a lot of assistance from private donors. But at this point it's yelling into the wind. Without fully supportive communities and government assistance, we're really moving nowhere. And it isn't just some shortcomings of the government. It's also private property NIMBY types that don't want services in their area. Example: our main office is in the Venice/Santa Monica area. We have rules and regulations brought upon by local NIMBYs on what time we can be there, who can be there, what services we can provide, and more. So while we help the unhoused in that area, we have offices elsewhere that some clients can't make it to, which reduces the assistance they are able to receive. So while it's easy to say "it isn't working", how hard has everyone else really tried? I don't see many people quitting their dev jobs to make 1/2, sometimes 1/4 of the wage to do a more strenuous job. The only reason I did is because the agency I now work for also helped me when I was on the streets and they're willing to pay me more because of my lived experience. I still do web dev and IT stuff on the side to make up some of the wages I lost transitioning, but it was somewhat difficult to adjust to. So, what are your experiences helping the unhoused? How have you been able to help those around you? How were you able to help those that refused? Do you have a contact list of agencies that may help theunhoused? If so, can we collaborate so hopefully more people can get assistance? Well, maybe not, since you're probably in a different part of the world than me, but here's a starting point for the LA area: https://www.lahsa.org/get-help https://www.lahsa.org/get-help. Also on that site is a careers page that has a full listing of agencies in the different SPAs in LA county. But if you know of national agencies that can assist the unhoused population, please, let me know. We are in dire need of real assistance, not empty words. Edit: spelling

QuarterReptile 2y ago
We would, as a culture, have to make and act on the value judgment that dying in the streets, paired with all the other social ills that accompany having long-term homelessness, is sufficiently bad to justify involuntarily committing the mentally ill to secure facilities. Do you see that happening?
- ohmyiv 2y ago
  That doesn't have to happen when locals can help their local community. Do you see yourself trying to bring community together to help? Have you tried discussing homelessness with public fugures? Celebrities? Anyone besides complaining that nothing works? Grassroots movements start at a local area and grow, particularly where government doesnt help. What have you done besides make an excuse for taking action? Do you really think that being a random person complaining on the internet is actually helping the people you say need help? I noticed you didn't answer any of my questions. Just filled space with empty words. Again, I ask, what have you done to help unhoused people? Besides finding excuses why it won't happen, then complaining nothing gets done. What you don't seem to understand is sitting around comfy and cozy in your residence complaining about stuff doesn't actually solve anything. What needs to happen is individuals, such as yourself, actually need to try and help the unhoused instead of crying that the government doesn't do enough or that people as a whole will never make it happen. How much of your life has actually been spent assist8ng others instead of being cynical and doubting? How many excuses have you made up in order to not help? I get that complaining on the internet is "cool" nowadays, but with society growing larger, we need more people to help instead of crying and whining about every step of the process (see my previous comment about NIMBYs). But everyone just wants to complain and be seen as someone who cares instead of actually doing it. So again, what have you done to help? Because being upset nothing/not enough is being done and finding excuses to not do anything is quite frankly, useless.
  - QuarterReptile 2y ago
    I don't think I purported to solve anything, nor was I particularly upset. Disappointed or resigned, probably. I think we've denied ourselves the possibility of fixing anything. I could probably be convinced of the possibility of meaningful improvement, but I'm mostly skeptical. I don't really do anything, other than giving food and whatever else the food pantry people ask for. I guess I theoretically try to improve the homeless vet problem, before they're vets...

QuarterReptile 2y ago

>Also, the US is incapable of even reproducing itself, which falls far short of my definition of "works." Not to say this is a non-issue (it's hugely important), but it seems a bit odd in a context where Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Sub-Saharan Africa (plus a few central Asian and South American nations) hadn't really been invoked