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Europeans have already solved this problem without need for non-existent technology. It's called public transportation. That's why Americans spend 101 minutes p

Europeans have already solved this problem without need for non-existent technology. It's called public transportation. That's why Americans spend 101 minutes per day driving on average while Germans spend 36. Imagine how much more GDP the US would have had if they had done that... edit: Of course, Europeans also use that extra time to enjoy life versus driving GDP that due to increasing wealth inequality won't benefit them in any tangible way.

joshl32532 2y ago
Just wait 10-20 years when self-driving is the norm, it will reduce congestions caused by human's behavior and accidents.
- marcinzm 2y ago
  How exactly will it reduce congestion? The cars are the same size. The trips are the same and are likely to go up in frequency with self-driving. The roads are the same as before. If anything you will have a ton more congestion. The vast majority of congestion is due to not enough capacity and too much demand. Right now that is caped due to the time you waste driving but if it's self-driving then the sky is the limit. Public transportation increases the potential commuter density per area of road/rail while self-driving doesn't.
  - warcher 2y ago
    I think self driving and public transport are actually complimentary. The principal benefits of owning your own automobile are convenience, as it’s always available for your use, and range— it will go wherever you want. Enabling vast fleets of on demand taxis is already well underway, making owning your own vehicle less attractive. The next step imho is bundling rides together, making NOT owning your car cheaper still. For urban cores, I would expect shared self driving to crowd out private cars pretty quickly.
- lm28469 2y ago
  > Just wait 10-20 years Musk said in 2 years, in 2012. Two more weeks brothers, two more weeks ... lol
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  I highly doubt self-driving is going to reduce congestion. Self-driving makes driving more convenient & useful, so people are going to use it more.
  - TheLoafOfBread 2y ago
    And it is also inefficient because it is used in cars taking 4 passengers max so it can not really scale. But if a bus, a tram or a train would have a self driving... but that smells like communism to our techbros from Silicon Valley.
- Ekaros 2y ago
  I will always argue that self-driving will increase congestions. There are so many behaviours that are on individual level superior, but on large scale worse. Send car to park somewhere cheaper doubling the number of trips. Have it circle around waiting to pick you up... And as felt cost of just sitting in car goes down, time spend in car can go up.
  - dilyevsky 2y ago
    It will probably nearly eliminate individual car ownership which will free up a ton of real estate currently used for parking. Which will probably reduce congestion inside the cities. It may also reduce highway congestion because we can engineer it such that it knows how drive unlike most people on the roads today
ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
Which problem has been solved? There are 250M cars on the road in Europe. Clogging up public space and requiring human labor to be driven around. There are cars everywhere in Germany.
- marcinzm 2y ago
  The US has 280m with half the population.
  - ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
    Public transport has pros and cons. A self-driving car can take you exactly from where you are to where you want to go. Right now. Public transport requires you to walk to an entry point, wait and then walk to your destination. Self-driving cars will make things way more efficient. Similar how TCP/IP packets are more efficient than TV broadcasts, which required you to plan when to watch what and then wait for it. So if you propose that Europe should try to achieve efficiency via more public transport, I think that is a losing battle. Electric self-driving cars are the future.
    - pornel 2y ago
      In European cities it's often the opposite: - A train will take you right into the city center, sometimes even where cars are not allowed. OTOH entering the city from suburbia can take an hour of being stuck in traffic. - metro and trams can skip traffic. Bus lanes are common. There are no "stroads". Average car speed in London is 12mph. That's slower than a bike. - Finding a parking place can easily take longer than waiting for public transport, and it will probably be an underground garage, far away from your destination. Bus stops are much denser than parking garages, so they usually involve less walking. The US experience of driving on an 8-lane highway and arriving at a mandatory-parking-quota asphalt desert in front of your destination is rare in Europe. The closest we get is a 3-lane motorway to an IKEA on the city outskirts.
      - ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago

joshl32532 2y ago

Just wait 10-20 years when self-driving is the norm, it will reduce congestions caused by human's behavior and accidents.

marcinzm 2y ago
How exactly will it reduce congestion? The cars are the same size. The trips are the same and are likely to go up in frequency with self-driving. The roads are the same as before. If anything you will have a ton more congestion. The vast majority of congestion is due to not enough capacity and too much demand. Right now that is caped due to the time you waste driving but if it's self-driving then the sky is the limit. Public transportation increases the potential commuter density per area of road/rail while self-driving doesn't.
- warcher 2y ago
  I think self driving and public transport are actually complimentary. The principal benefits of owning your own automobile are convenience, as it’s always available for your use, and range— it will go wherever you want. Enabling vast fleets of on demand taxis is already well underway, making owning your own vehicle less attractive. The next step imho is bundling rides together, making NOT owning your car cheaper still. For urban cores, I would expect shared self driving to crowd out private cars pretty quickly.
lm28469 2y ago
> Just wait 10-20 years Musk said in 2 years, in 2012. Two more weeks brothers, two more weeks ... lol
bryanlarsen 2y ago
I highly doubt self-driving is going to reduce congestion. Self-driving makes driving more convenient & useful, so people are going to use it more.
- TheLoafOfBread 2y ago
  And it is also inefficient because it is used in cars taking 4 passengers max so it can not really scale. But if a bus, a tram or a train would have a self driving... but that smells like communism to our techbros from Silicon Valley.
Ekaros 2y ago
I will always argue that self-driving will increase congestions. There are so many behaviours that are on individual level superior, but on large scale worse. Send car to park somewhere cheaper doubling the number of trips. Have it circle around waiting to pick you up... And as felt cost of just sitting in car goes down, time spend in car can go up.
- dilyevsky 2y ago
  It will probably nearly eliminate individual car ownership which will free up a ton of real estate currently used for parking. Which will probably reduce congestion inside the cities. It may also reduce highway congestion because we can engineer it such that it knows how drive unlike most people on the roads today

ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago

Which problem has been solved? There are 250M cars on the road in Europe. Clogging up public space and requiring human labor to be driven around. There are cars everywhere in Germany.

marcinzm 2y ago
The US has 280m with half the population.
- ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
  Public transport has pros and cons. A self-driving car can take you exactly from where you are to where you want to go. Right now. Public transport requires you to walk to an entry point, wait and then walk to your destination. Self-driving cars will make things way more efficient. Similar how TCP/IP packets are more efficient than TV broadcasts, which required you to plan when to watch what and then wait for it. So if you propose that Europe should try to achieve efficiency via more public transport, I think that is a losing battle. Electric self-driving cars are the future.
  - pornel 2y ago
    In European cities it's often the opposite: - A train will take you right into the city center, sometimes even where cars are not allowed. OTOH entering the city from suburbia can take an hour of being stuck in traffic. - metro and trams can skip traffic. Bus lanes are common. There are no "stroads". Average car speed in London is 12mph. That's slower than a bike. - Finding a parking place can easily take longer than waiting for public transport, and it will probably be an underground garage, far away from your destination. Bus stops are much denser than parking garages, so they usually involve less walking. The US experience of driving on an 8-lane highway and arriving at a mandatory-parking-quota asphalt desert in front of your destination is rare in Europe. The closest we get is a 3-lane motorway to an IKEA on the city outskirts.
    - ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago