4 ms·

I don't quite understand why Celorio is going after the manufacturers. He should definitely go after the ATF for not finding these first and straw purchasers if

I don't quite understand why Celorio is going after the manufacturers. He should definitely go after the ATF for not finding these first and straw purchasers if they lied on the 4473, and probably the sellers if they were complicit in the lying. But not the manufacturers.

nickff 2y ago
There are fewer manufacturers than retailers, and the manufacturers have more money. As a result, this is easier, and has a better potential payout.
- brodouevencode 2y ago
  So it's all about the money...
  - Clubber 2y ago
    I think the objective is to sue the manufacturers out of business as a measure of gun control. Also money. With how corrupt Mexico is in regards to the cartels, they should be suing themselves. https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-01-25/alejandro-celorio-the-lawyer-leading-mexicos-lawsuit-against-us-gun-manufacturers-the-arms-industry-has-blood-on-its-hands.html https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-01-25/alejandr...
  - sans_souse 2y ago
    are you just finally coming to realize this?
    - brodouevencode 2y ago
      Not really, just want it on record.
- radicaldreamer 2y ago
  They’re also licensed, required to keep copious paperwork for production details, and easy to find.
- ApolloFortyNine 2y ago
  >this is easier >In a separate suit, they have accused five Arizona gun shops – many of which also appear in the hacked data obtained by USA TODAY, of selling guns that crossed the border and were used in crimes. They're doing both, likely this is the one they expect to win, and they're just playing up the other one for political points. Or hoping when they win the second, people think it was about the first, painting the gun manufacturers in a more negative light. They also may be going to the hailmary of essentially banning all guns in the U.S through bankrupting them, though this is even more ridiculous than trying to go after a gun company after a mass shooting. This is more like going after Ford because a dealer sold an f150 to someone who sold it to someone else who ran over a pedestrian.
SoftTalker 2y ago
They did go after the purchasers. Among them is Texan Craig Adlong. He pleaded guilty in 2020 for lying on firearm transaction forms, saying the guns were for his personal use. He purchased 95 semi-automatic rifles at Guns Unlimited in Katy, Texas, making seven visits over two months. Sixty-six of those firearms were recovered in Mexico, according to the leak. He got a sentence of 6 months, according to the article.
- brodouevencode 2y ago
  Yeah, I saw that and would probably say that the penalty for straw purchasing should be stiffer. But the question was about the manufacturers.
dingnuts 2y ago
it's because this, like the ATF's program "Fast and the Furious," is an underhanded play to disarm Americans and deny them of their 2nd Amendment rights through extralegal means. It's mentioned right in TFA! >From 2006-2011 [federal] agents in Arizona stood down as straw purchasers illegally bought 2,000 guns at shops, intending to use the information to track trafficking patterns and arrest the kingpins. However, agents didn’t deliver the high-level arrests – and in the process, they lost track of hundreds of guns. >Hundreds of Fast and Furious firearms have previously been traced to other shootings in Mexico. The new leak indicates hundreds more are still being found. US government sells guns to cartels to prove that guns are being sold to cartels, then sues manufacturers. And people wonder why the country has lost faith in its leaders.
- dazilcher 2y ago
  "agents in Arizona stood down as straw purchasers illegally bought 2,000 guns at shops" is most definitely not the same as "US government sells guns to cartels". Do you have any evidence for the latter?
mcphage 2y ago
> why Celorio is going after the manufacturers It's hard for the government in this country to regulate guns. But, if you can force the manufacturers to care about this issue by hitting their bottom line, they might start paying more attention to where their products end up. They have both the ability and the money to affect the sellers. Think of it as solving the problem via the marketplace, rather than government intervention.

nickff 2y ago

There are fewer manufacturers than retailers, and the manufacturers have more money. As a result, this is easier, and has a better potential payout.

brodouevencode 2y ago
So it's all about the money...
- Clubber 2y ago
  I think the objective is to sue the manufacturers out of business as a measure of gun control. Also money. With how corrupt Mexico is in regards to the cartels, they should be suing themselves. https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-01-25/alejandro-celorio-the-lawyer-leading-mexicos-lawsuit-against-us-gun-manufacturers-the-arms-industry-has-blood-on-its-hands.html https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-01-25/alejandr...
- sans_souse 2y ago
  are you just finally coming to realize this?
  - brodouevencode 2y ago
    Not really, just want it on record.
radicaldreamer 2y ago
They’re also licensed, required to keep copious paperwork for production details, and easy to find.
ApolloFortyNine 2y ago
>this is easier >In a separate suit, they have accused five Arizona gun shops – many of which also appear in the hacked data obtained by USA TODAY, of selling guns that crossed the border and were used in crimes. They're doing both, likely this is the one they expect to win, and they're just playing up the other one for political points. Or hoping when they win the second, people think it was about the first, painting the gun manufacturers in a more negative light. They also may be going to the hailmary of essentially banning all guns in the U.S through bankrupting them, though this is even more ridiculous than trying to go after a gun company after a mass shooting. This is more like going after Ford because a dealer sold an f150 to someone who sold it to someone else who ran over a pedestrian.

SoftTalker 2y ago

They did go after the purchasers. Among them is Texan Craig Adlong. He pleaded guilty in 2020 for lying on firearm transaction forms, saying the guns were for his personal use. He purchased 95 semi-automatic rifles at Guns Unlimited in Katy, Texas, making seven visits over two months. Sixty-six of those firearms were recovered in Mexico, according to the leak. He got a sentence of 6 months, according to the article.

brodouevencode 2y ago
Yeah, I saw that and would probably say that the penalty for straw purchasing should be stiffer. But the question was about the manufacturers.

dingnuts 2y ago

it's because this, like the ATF's program "Fast and the Furious," is an underhanded play to disarm Americans and deny them of their 2nd Amendment rights through extralegal means. It's mentioned right in TFA! >From 2006-2011 [federal] agents in Arizona stood down as straw purchasers illegally bought 2,000 guns at shops, intending to use the information to track trafficking patterns and arrest the kingpins. However, agents didn’t deliver the high-level arrests – and in the process, they lost track of hundreds of guns. >Hundreds of Fast and Furious firearms have previously been traced to other shootings in Mexico. The new leak indicates hundreds more are still being found. US government sells guns to cartels to prove that guns are being sold to cartels, then sues manufacturers. And people wonder why the country has lost faith in its leaders.

dazilcher 2y ago
"agents in Arizona stood down as straw purchasers illegally bought 2,000 guns at shops" is most definitely not the same as "US government sells guns to cartels". Do you have any evidence for the latter?

mcphage 2y ago

> why Celorio is going after the manufacturers It's hard for the government in this country to regulate guns. But, if you can force the manufacturers to care about this issue by hitting their bottom line, they might start paying more attention to where their products end up. They have both the ability and the money to affect the sellers. Think of it as solving the problem via the marketplace, rather than government intervention.