3 ms·

The heliocentric conceit that you’re arguing against isn’t my quote from the internet. That’s Carl Sagan giving a speech IRL. I’d encourage you to follow the

The heliocentric conceit that you’re arguing against isn’t my quote from the internet. That’s Carl Sagan giving a speech IRL. I’d encourage you to follow the link I shared and listen to Carl Sagan’s full speech. > It's a reflection of a general myopia in the American psyche, which intensifies as you reach the country's center where the rest of the world is relegated to being regarded as a strange abstract construct, and either ignored, disdained, or bombed. There is nothing that I’ve found about the people that have settled the American Midwest that makes this statement more or less true than any other arbitrary geographic grouping of people I’ve come across in life when it comes to using language like “the fall.” Which I was trying to demonstrate by quoting Carl Sagan. GP is throwing plain ol’ bigotry at a group of people.

robxorb 2y ago
Having travelled extensively, I've observed that Americans, in general, whether themselves travellers, or living in the US, are significantly less aware of other countries and cultures than any other major country. Absurdly so. Further, those that have some awareness, or what I'd deem is an ordinary level of awareness, are very typically from either the East or West coasts. I've reasoned this makes sense, as those living on the coast are more likely to encounter foreigners, or travel themselves. In Europe, or for example most of Asia, by contrast, awareness is significantly higher, across the board. And when it isn't, the attitude is so different; much more curiosity and tolerance, less superiority or arrogance, if any. This only makes sense to me, given other geography's versus the US, which is somewhat in its own kind of geographic bubble, and a pervasive culture which, extremely arrogantly, believes the country is "the greatest on earth". If the US people didn't also continually support ongoing violent conflicts in parts of the world they have no business involving themselves in, I'd regard this myopia as largely benign. But that's not the case. This aspect of the American psyche, and the votes it directs, remains a significant concern to the rest of the world - and I will continue to call it out as such.
- r3trohack3r 2y ago
  I held this view for a while after growing up in Illinois. But I think Americans are a bit different in the scales and the distances that they deal with compared to other countries. And those differences lead to cultural isolation depending on where you draw "culture" lines. I think you find a similar inward facing mindset everywhere, but not every geography is as connected as the countries Americans gets contrasted with. Some cultures are closer together, temporally and geographically, than others. America is huge and young. In Europe, for example, you can drive for a few hours and end up in another culture with deep history. Those countries are also connected by land routes to world powers. The first time I left the U.S., I was ~20. I traveled with an international team. My coworker was German and he couldn't wrap his head around the fact that I'd never left the U.S. He shared a story about his childhood where they all hopped in the station wagon and drove to France. I said: "Yeah, my family did the same thing. But we went to Missouri." By road, Berlin to Moscow is closer than Denver to NYC. The Americans in the Midwest often know a bit of Spanish, are somewhat familiar with major events in Mexico and Canada, etc. And they are super in-tune with the cultures and politics of other states in the U.S. Like-for-like, I'd compare American cultural knowledge of other states in the union (i.e. Louisiana, Kentucky, New Jersey, etc.) to the knowledge of other countries for someone living in Europe. I agree with you that the American Government is not benign. I think Americans solving the American Government is one of the most pressing issues of our generation, not just from an inwardly facing American perspective but because of the outward damage this country is actively doing around the world. I have a lot of thoughts there that I'd dig deeper into in another context. In my opinion the state of the U.S. Government has more to do with the rise of crony capitalism and the failings of first-past-the-post voting than the conversation we are having here.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    This is my argument every time a European talks about the lack of American international travel. They poke at us like we're unwilling to listen to logic, but they themselves are unwilling to listen to logic about logistics of navigation of physical land masses. Even if an American traveled from the center of the country to a coastal part, there's still massive oceans separating from either side that must be logistically dealt with. From Europe, once could get to a lot of Asia without ever getting their feet wet. Those ocean borders act not only as security moats, but also as cultural moats. This is just too outside the everyday experience for them, that it just seems to not compute. For whatever reason, non-Americas just are not willing to accept that as any kind of explanation. The expense of traversing those oceans to get somewhere else is large in both time and money when both are limited.

robxorb 2y ago

Having travelled extensively, I've observed that Americans, in general, whether themselves travellers, or living in the US, are significantly less aware of other countries and cultures than any other major country. Absurdly so. Further, those that have some awareness, or what I'd deem is an ordinary level of awareness, are very typically from either the East or West coasts. I've reasoned this makes sense, as those living on the coast are more likely to encounter foreigners, or travel themselves. In Europe, or for example most of Asia, by contrast, awareness is significantly higher, across the board. And when it isn't, the attitude is so different; much more curiosity and tolerance, less superiority or arrogance, if any. This only makes sense to me, given other geography's versus the US, which is somewhat in its own kind of geographic bubble, and a pervasive culture which, extremely arrogantly, believes the country is "the greatest on earth". If the US people didn't also continually support ongoing violent conflicts in parts of the world they have no business involving themselves in, I'd regard this myopia as largely benign. But that's not the case. This aspect of the American psyche, and the votes it directs, remains a significant concern to the rest of the world - and I will continue to call it out as such.

r3trohack3r 2y ago
I held this view for a while after growing up in Illinois. But I think Americans are a bit different in the scales and the distances that they deal with compared to other countries. And those differences lead to cultural isolation depending on where you draw "culture" lines. I think you find a similar inward facing mindset everywhere, but not every geography is as connected as the countries Americans gets contrasted with. Some cultures are closer together, temporally and geographically, than others. America is huge and young. In Europe, for example, you can drive for a few hours and end up in another culture with deep history. Those countries are also connected by land routes to world powers. The first time I left the U.S., I was ~20. I traveled with an international team. My coworker was German and he couldn't wrap his head around the fact that I'd never left the U.S. He shared a story about his childhood where they all hopped in the station wagon and drove to France. I said: "Yeah, my family did the same thing. But we went to Missouri." By road, Berlin to Moscow is closer than Denver to NYC. The Americans in the Midwest often know a bit of Spanish, are somewhat familiar with major events in Mexico and Canada, etc. And they are super in-tune with the cultures and politics of other states in the U.S. Like-for-like, I'd compare American cultural knowledge of other states in the union (i.e. Louisiana, Kentucky, New Jersey, etc.) to the knowledge of other countries for someone living in Europe. I agree with you that the American Government is not benign. I think Americans solving the American Government is one of the most pressing issues of our generation, not just from an inwardly facing American perspective but because of the outward damage this country is actively doing around the world. I have a lot of thoughts there that I'd dig deeper into in another context. In my opinion the state of the U.S. Government has more to do with the rise of crony capitalism and the failings of first-past-the-post voting than the conversation we are having here.
- dylan604 2y ago
  This is my argument every time a European talks about the lack of American international travel. They poke at us like we're unwilling to listen to logic, but they themselves are unwilling to listen to logic about logistics of navigation of physical land masses. Even if an American traveled from the center of the country to a coastal part, there's still massive oceans separating from either side that must be logistically dealt with. From Europe, once could get to a lot of Asia without ever getting their feet wet. Those ocean borders act not only as security moats, but also as cultural moats. This is just too outside the everyday experience for them, that it just seems to not compute. For whatever reason, non-Americas just are not willing to accept that as any kind of explanation. The expense of traversing those oceans to get somewhere else is large in both time and money when both are limited.