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> Since the Tesla 3's keyless entry system also controls the car's immobilizer feature designed to prevent its theft, that means a radio hacker could start the

> Since the Tesla 3's keyless entry system also controls the car's immobilizer feature designed to prevent its theft, that means a radio hacker could start the car and drive it away in seconds—unless the driver has enabled Tesla's optional, off-by-default PIN-to-drive feature that requires the owner to enter a four-digit code before starting the car. I've always thought that keyless starts are a tiny UX improvement over just inserting a key and twisting it, and an improvement that is totally not worth all of the additional security complications. Now I learn that to patch the security complications it's now recommended that you set a four-digit pin that you have to type in in order to start the car. That will take at least as long as twisting the key does in a traditional car. So, a question for people who have keyless starts: If the time savings are used up by a PIN, do you still derive any value from keyless starts?

calciphus 2y ago
I get value from not having to carry keys. That's less bulk for me. I carry no keys at this point I my life, and it's great. Locks are a societal agreement, not an impenetrable shield. My car is not a fortress or a safe. It's covered in glass. Having a mechanical switch inside a glass box is no more secure if your threat model is "someone technically advanced and highly motivated".
- lolinder 2y ago
  I'm not so concerned about keyless entry, it's keyless starts that I'm worried about. We've come a long way in preventing hot wiring, and this feels like a step back. I was under the impression that you do in fact need to carry a key in order to start the car, it's just a key fob instead of a key. Is that inaccurate? Does it recognize your phone or something? EDIT: Yeah, it looks like at least Tesla has a phone Bluetooth option [0]. I can definitely see the value there. [0] https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-E004FAB7-1C71-448F-9492-CACF301304D2.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-E004FAB...
  - cchance 2y ago
    I mean the car drives with bluetooth, it can be relayed sure but also ... you can enable pin to drive, and even if you drive away with the car once the relay is broken due to range the car won't start again, and also stealing a tesla this way is ... well really fucking dumb, the GPS tracking on the car, the fact the owner can literally shut down the car remotely or limit speed, personally i think remote valet mode should be allowed to set the car to 10mph max
cchance 2y ago
Its about carrying shit around and losing it i carry my phone i'm not carrying a shitload of keys anymore, hell my drivers license is in a slot on my phone, so no wallet either anymore
nashashmi 2y ago
When my keys are in mu tight pocket it is is nice to be able to open the door without taking my keys out. It is also nice to start the car without reaching for my keys. I used to be a field guy and sitting in my car all the time. Now I use my car key twice a day. So it is less useful.

calciphus 2y ago

I get value from not having to carry keys. That's less bulk for me. I carry no keys at this point I my life, and it's great. Locks are a societal agreement, not an impenetrable shield. My car is not a fortress or a safe. It's covered in glass. Having a mechanical switch inside a glass box is no more secure if your threat model is "someone technically advanced and highly motivated".

lolinder 2y ago
I'm not so concerned about keyless entry, it's keyless starts that I'm worried about. We've come a long way in preventing hot wiring, and this feels like a step back. I was under the impression that you do in fact need to carry a key in order to start the car, it's just a key fob instead of a key. Is that inaccurate? Does it recognize your phone or something? EDIT: Yeah, it looks like at least Tesla has a phone Bluetooth option [0]. I can definitely see the value there. [0] https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-E004FAB7-1C71-448F-9492-CACF301304D2.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-E004FAB...
- cchance 2y ago
  I mean the car drives with bluetooth, it can be relayed sure but also ... you can enable pin to drive, and even if you drive away with the car once the relay is broken due to range the car won't start again, and also stealing a tesla this way is ... well really fucking dumb, the GPS tracking on the car, the fact the owner can literally shut down the car remotely or limit speed, personally i think remote valet mode should be allowed to set the car to 10mph max

cchance 2y ago

Its about carrying shit around and losing it i carry my phone i'm not carrying a shitload of keys anymore, hell my drivers license is in a slot on my phone, so no wallet either anymore

nashashmi 2y ago

When my keys are in mu tight pocket it is is nice to be able to open the door without taking my keys out. It is also nice to start the car without reaching for my keys. I used to be a field guy and sitting in my car all the time. Now I use my car key twice a day. So it is less useful.