4 ms·

I know a couple of people who were dubiously accused of network related shenanigans at college, and yeah - you are heavily pushed into confessing to something,

I know a couple of people who were dubiously accused of network related shenanigans at college, and yeah - you are heavily pushed into confessing to something, there’s no due process, fuck all burden of proof, etc. Truth doesn’t matter in university disciplinary matters - only finding someone (not the university) to blame.

deleted 2y ago
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ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
I remember watching a news magazine (may have been 60 Minutes -long time ago), that talked about how universities handle sexual assault allegations. They have their own police force, and the segment was about how they would often keep regular cops frozen out of the investigations, and just wanted to "hush things up," often at the expense of the victims.
- fullspectrumdev 2y ago
  It’s the same with theft, normal assault, fraud, normal criminal behaviour, etc. Universities often want to keep it “in house” and deal with it through internal disciplinary actions - as opposed to bringing in the law enforcement and public scrutiny. This exists outside the US too - and doesn’t require a campus police force. In the university a friend went to, such matters (theft from accommodations, etc) were dealt with through the deans office, and calling the cops was heavily discouraged by the university. This system has pros and cons, but when it’s to do with more serious matters (actual assault, sexual assault, etc) the real authorities should be brought in instead of some bizarre victim silencing and due process lacking internal system.
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    Sometimes, universities just disseminate this information to their students, too. Somebody hit to our vehicle (owned by a government institution) and tried to ran away into their university, but failed. We had to call the police (since that's a government institution vehicle), and university security guards came and told the driver "if something like this happens again, just try harder to enter university premises, we can help you". We politely told the guards that this is a government owned van, and we need to call the police, anyway. They frowned very visibly to this fact. The driver was also very sad about not being able to outrun us. This was not in US.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
      > This was not in US. If it was, I’d have just let them get away, and called the cops anyway. They would be charged with leaving the scene of an accident (hit and run). The campus rent-a-cops would not be able to do a thing.
      - bayindirh 2y ago
        Same would have happened if the driver have managed to run away, but lucky for them, they failed. Otherwise, it'd be much bigger fine for them.
meowster 2y ago
I was a student on one of those university boards. I highly recommend hiring a lawyer at the first hint of an issue. My university wanted people to accept "responsibility" which students took as responsibility for their actions, not for what they were being pinned for. Of course the students are going to take responsibility for their actions thinking that will help, and then the University does whatever with its mind already made up. One student had trace amounts of drugs on some paraphernalia. Student didn't show up to their board hearing, so got the default suspension. Could have stayed and brought a lawyer for less than what the semester cost (instead of receiving Incompletes/Fails) and won. Oh well.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

I remember watching a news magazine (may have been 60 Minutes -long time ago), that talked about how universities handle sexual assault allegations. They have their own police force, and the segment was about how they would often keep regular cops frozen out of the investigations, and just wanted to "hush things up," often at the expense of the victims.

fullspectrumdev 2y ago
It’s the same with theft, normal assault, fraud, normal criminal behaviour, etc. Universities often want to keep it “in house” and deal with it through internal disciplinary actions - as opposed to bringing in the law enforcement and public scrutiny. This exists outside the US too - and doesn’t require a campus police force. In the university a friend went to, such matters (theft from accommodations, etc) were dealt with through the deans office, and calling the cops was heavily discouraged by the university. This system has pros and cons, but when it’s to do with more serious matters (actual assault, sexual assault, etc) the real authorities should be brought in instead of some bizarre victim silencing and due process lacking internal system.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  Sometimes, universities just disseminate this information to their students, too. Somebody hit to our vehicle (owned by a government institution) and tried to ran away into their university, but failed. We had to call the police (since that's a government institution vehicle), and university security guards came and told the driver "if something like this happens again, just try harder to enter university premises, we can help you". We politely told the guards that this is a government owned van, and we need to call the police, anyway. They frowned very visibly to this fact. The driver was also very sad about not being able to outrun us. This was not in US.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    > This was not in US. If it was, I’d have just let them get away, and called the cops anyway. They would be charged with leaving the scene of an accident (hit and run). The campus rent-a-cops would not be able to do a thing.
    - bayindirh 2y ago
      Same would have happened if the driver have managed to run away, but lucky for them, they failed. Otherwise, it'd be much bigger fine for them.

meowster 2y ago

I was a student on one of those university boards. I highly recommend hiring a lawyer at the first hint of an issue. My university wanted people to accept "responsibility" which students took as responsibility for their actions, not for what they were being pinned for. Of course the students are going to take responsibility for their actions thinking that will help, and then the University does whatever with its mind already made up. One student had trace amounts of drugs on some paraphernalia. Student didn't show up to their board hearing, so got the default suspension. Could have stayed and brought a lawyer for less than what the semester cost (instead of receiving Incompletes/Fails) and won. Oh well.