4 ms·

It feels like there are more specific accusations of misconduct against the student/app that are missing from the article... The university claimed it violated

It feels like there are more specific accusations of misconduct against the student/app that are missing from the article... The university claimed it violated their ethics policies, but for what reason? Further the article states there is no evidence directly linking the app to cheating? It's a bit strange the student in question submitted letters of apologies... For what was he apologizing for? Feels like there are some details missing.

squirtle24 2y ago
My guess - the app's users uploading university course material to a third party is likely a violation of school rules. Emory IT disabled the button to generate Canvas access tokens, and the 'workaround' the kid developed in response caused the IT folks to escalate. An LLM trained on course material could in theory be used to generate homework answers, so they wanted to shut it down before it actually happens. (Hell, the demo question on their website[1] sounds taken straight from a problem set) It would be as if the answer key to the homework leaked, except its for every homework in every course. The punishments are to discourage others from building clones. Though I suspect this is going to cause a Streisand effect. [1] https://www.eightball.ai/ https://www.eightball.ai/
vsnf 2y ago
I dunno, Universities can often behave like soviets. I was pushed through a university kangaroo court at Northeastern where they tried to (falsely) pin a charge of destruction of the university wifi network on me. They were threatening suspension and expulsion, I had to go to numerous hearings attended by high ranking university officials, and was definitely told that writing a letter of apology would incline the university to lighten my punishment. I fought my way tooth and nail out of the situation and was exonerated, but I can imagine a hundred reasons why any given student in a similar situation would capitulate.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > I had to go to numerous hearings attended by high ranking university officials, and was definitely told that writing a letter of apology would incline the university to lighten my punishment. This reminds me of the police telling people that writing out a confession will get them a lighter punishment.
- fullspectrumdev 2y ago
  I know a couple of people who were dubiously accused of network related shenanigans at college, and yeah - you are heavily pushed into confessing to something, there’s no due process, fuck all burden of proof, etc. Truth doesn’t matter in university disciplinary matters - only finding someone (not the university) to blame.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    I remember watching a news magazine (may have been 60 Minutes -long time ago), that talked about how universities handle sexual assault allegations. They have their own police force, and the segment was about how they would often keep regular cops frozen out of the investigations, and just wanted to "hush things up," often at the expense of the victims.
    - fullspectrumdev 2y ago
      It’s the same with theft, normal assault, fraud, normal criminal behaviour, etc. Universities often want to keep it “in house” and deal with it through internal disciplinary actions - as opposed to bringing in the law enforcement and public scrutiny. This exists outside the US too - and doesn’t require a campus police force. In the university a friend went to, such matters (theft from accommodations, etc) were dealt with through the deans office, and calling the cops was heavily discouraged by the university. This system has pros and cons, but when it’s to do with more serious matters (actual assault, sexual assault, etc) the real authorities should be brought in instead of some bizarre victim silencing and due process lacking internal system.
      - bayindirh 2y ago
        Sometimes, universities just disseminate this information to their students, too. Somebody hit to our vehicle (owned by a government institution) and tried to ran away into their university, but failed. We had to call the police (since that's a government institution vehicle), and university security guards came and told the driver "if something like this happens again, just try harder to enter university premises, we can help you". We politely told the guards that this is a government owned van, and we need to call the police, anyway. They frowned very visibly to this fact. The driver was also very sad about not being able to outrun us. This was not in US.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- yyyyybb 2y ago
  Yes this happened to me too, but the rounds of applause I get on Internet forums makes it all worth it!
- thriftwy 2y ago
  > Universities can often behave like soviets https://paulgraham.com/saynotes.html https://paulgraham.com/saynotes.html note 10 for the rescue

squirtle24 2y ago

My guess - the app's users uploading university course material to a third party is likely a violation of school rules. Emory IT disabled the button to generate Canvas access tokens, and the 'workaround' the kid developed in response caused the IT folks to escalate. An LLM trained on course material could in theory be used to generate homework answers, so they wanted to shut it down before it actually happens. (Hell, the demo question on their website[1] sounds taken straight from a problem set) It would be as if the answer key to the homework leaked, except its for every homework in every course. The punishments are to discourage others from building clones. Though I suspect this is going to cause a Streisand effect. [1] https://www.eightball.ai/ https://www.eightball.ai/

vsnf 2y ago

I dunno, Universities can often behave like soviets. I was pushed through a university kangaroo court at Northeastern where they tried to (falsely) pin a charge of destruction of the university wifi network on me. They were threatening suspension and expulsion, I had to go to numerous hearings attended by high ranking university officials, and was definitely told that writing a letter of apology would incline the university to lighten my punishment. I fought my way tooth and nail out of the situation and was exonerated, but I can imagine a hundred reasons why any given student in a similar situation would capitulate.

thaumasiotes 2y ago
> I had to go to numerous hearings attended by high ranking university officials, and was definitely told that writing a letter of apology would incline the university to lighten my punishment. This reminds me of the police telling people that writing out a confession will get them a lighter punishment.
fullspectrumdev 2y ago
I know a couple of people who were dubiously accused of network related shenanigans at college, and yeah - you are heavily pushed into confessing to something, there’s no due process, fuck all burden of proof, etc. Truth doesn’t matter in university disciplinary matters - only finding someone (not the university) to blame.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  I remember watching a news magazine (may have been 60 Minutes -long time ago), that talked about how universities handle sexual assault allegations. They have their own police force, and the segment was about how they would often keep regular cops frozen out of the investigations, and just wanted to "hush things up," often at the expense of the victims.
  - fullspectrumdev 2y ago
    It’s the same with theft, normal assault, fraud, normal criminal behaviour, etc. Universities often want to keep it “in house” and deal with it through internal disciplinary actions - as opposed to bringing in the law enforcement and public scrutiny. This exists outside the US too - and doesn’t require a campus police force. In the university a friend went to, such matters (theft from accommodations, etc) were dealt with through the deans office, and calling the cops was heavily discouraged by the university. This system has pros and cons, but when it’s to do with more serious matters (actual assault, sexual assault, etc) the real authorities should be brought in instead of some bizarre victim silencing and due process lacking internal system.
    - bayindirh 2y ago
      Sometimes, universities just disseminate this information to their students, too. Somebody hit to our vehicle (owned by a government institution) and tried to ran away into their university, but failed. We had to call the police (since that's a government institution vehicle), and university security guards came and told the driver "if something like this happens again, just try harder to enter university premises, we can help you". We politely told the guards that this is a government owned van, and we need to call the police, anyway. They frowned very visibly to this fact. The driver was also very sad about not being able to outrun us. This was not in US.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
yyyyybb 2y ago
Yes this happened to me too, but the rounds of applause I get on Internet forums makes it all worth it!
thriftwy 2y ago
> Universities can often behave like soviets https://paulgraham.com/saynotes.html https://paulgraham.com/saynotes.html note 10 for the rescue