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I can't tell how ironic this story is. It is about Russia using LLMs to promote and justify the genocide in Ukraine and undermine democracies, by using disinfor

I can't tell how ironic this story is. It is about Russia using LLMs to promote and justify the genocide in Ukraine and undermine democracies, by using disinformation. Why I don't see how ironic this is? Because I do think there's a lack of similar response towards Russia, in Russia. Like Youtube is actively censoring anti-war videos in Russia - imagine that. Now I ask, why is this story ironic to you, and by what metric do you judge the majority of HN userbase? > This ignorance of reality will come to bite us in the ass, as there are billions of people not in our information bubble, looking in at us from the outside, judging us for the immoral morons we quite obviously are. We're "immoral morons" by what moral standards? Russian? Chinese? North Korean? Iranian? I don't think anyone claims to be morally perfect, other than Russia, China, NK, and Iran - but I take democratic values and morals, no matter how flawed, over any autocratic/theocratic regime. Which moral framework do you prefer?

Garvi 2y ago
[flagged]
- hkpack 2y ago
  I guess we found the target of these AI-rewritten news stories in the wild. It definitely worked.
  - willcipriano 2y ago
    They had to use a AI to "fool him", you were happy with over 20 years of war and all your government had to do was say "they hate us cuz we're free". I wouldn't throw stones.
    - hkpack 2y ago
      > you were happy with over 20 years of war and all your government had to do was say "they hate us cuz we're free". I honestly cannot tell whether you're a bot, troll, or a mentally sick person. You have no idea who I am. You have zero ideas what I was happy or not with for the last 20 years. Writing a paragraph like this makes absolutely no fucking sense. I don't even understand what 20 years of war you're referring to? The next commenter in a similar fashion accused me of working hard to prove something about Epstein. You cannot just imagine random things about strangers on the internet and then believe in it.
      - Garvi 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - libertine 2y ago
        This is part of the Russian propaganda way of engaging on social media. The common patterns are: - they make bold and elaborate claims, filled with resentment from random past events (usually pinned on the US, or if they're in a rough spot they go back to the colonialism of the past centuries of some countries) - but completely out of context. Example: "Why can't Russia invade Ukraine but the US invaded Iraq!", "Why can't Russia expand borders but Western countries had colonies all over the world?" - they claim you're lying, then proceed to lie without providing sources; - they distort reality with lies, like : "Russia didn't kidnap 25.000 children, they evacuated them from a war zone" -> ignoring the fact that Russia was the cause of the war, they could allow Ukrainians to evacuate their children, and they should have returned the children. And the list goes on, but its all very child-like, empty of content, they can write several paragraphs without saying anything.
        Garvi 2y ago
        I'm presuming(hoping) you're US American and not European. Have fun with that attitude on your next election. I'll be consuming a lot of popcorn.
        libertine 2y ago
        We just had elections a few months ago, it went great. And if it wasn't, that's the great thing about democracies, in a few years it changes. Not for Russians though which I have no idea if you are or not, but you're very resentful of Western countries (its common on some Russians, Indians, etc...) Maybe you should look more at the shortcomings of the regime you're stuck with, and don't worry about the others who are doing great. This is especially funny since you're using the privilege of a Western-made platform, most likely with Western tech.
  - Garvi 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - hkpack 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - Garvi 2y ago
        [flagged]
        hkpack 2y ago
        Look, I don't live in the US and not obsessed with political wars there. Your comments accusing me of working hard to prove something about Epstein just make no sense to me. You found the last person on the internet worth talking about this person on a tech forum.
    - drtgh 2y ago
      I'm going try to explain, although I smell you are the one that is not going to understand. While people who only rely on TV to know what is happening in Ukraine may be only getting 1/9 of the complete picture, based on your flagged comment (that I had time to read), I humbly assume you only have 3/9 of the complete picture. You're defending a Carcharodon carcharias shark (Russia governance) in a fight against a Sphyrnidae shark (Ukrania governance) that is replacing an Isurus oxyrinchus shark (Family Lamnidae, I remark). In any case, fight between sharks, each doing what they do best, to bleed the fish, aka citizens, while the remoras feed on selling tools to sharpen their teeth. I think Ukrainian citizens are the ones that deserve protection, as well as Russian citizens trying to stop the blood. So, IMHO, we, as mere fish, should not help any of the predators propaganda. With your 3/9 of the complete picture you are under the Carcharodon carcharias domain, a predator who won't hesitate to bite you as soon as it gets hungry.
      - Garvi 2y ago
        You chose an awfully complicated way to say something that's most simple: "Everyone's wrong". And if that's your point, it's a cheap cop out. I don't think you worry about the Russian citizens of Ukraine more than you worry about cheering for your team. You could check the UN reports on what's been happening there during the 8 years of civil war we chose to ignore, as if the world started with Russians "completely unprovoked" invasion. I guess we can both agree that Russian actions aren't silly, dumb or random, but calculated. I have to admit I don't follow journalism that has lied to me in the past, so I don't know exactly what they're selling you, but I am interested. So what is your position on why Russia attacked Ukraine? For natural resources(I guess geography was taken off the curriculum after I was in school), invasion of the whole of Europe (I remember friends calling me in panic what to do, now that the Russians are coming.. I live in a EU country fairly west), or just pure hatred for Ukrainians in their heart (Balkan style)?
- mopsi 2y ago
  >> genocide in Ukraine > I would be very interested what your daily news sources are. Putin is literally wanted by the International Criminal Court for forcible transfer of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children, which is a crime of genocide that he foolishly boasted about in public without understanding its full ramifications.
  - Garvi 2y ago
    You mean the ICC that Biden just announced is going to be sanctioned for being dishonest? The ICC the US has an Act about attacking in case US war criminals be held there? The court that keeps ignoring regular illegal US invasions of foreign countries (I don't have the memory to recall all of them in my lifetime alone.. must be somewhere in the high 50s). How's that invasion of Syria going? Do you even know about it? That's what my posts are about: our western world being anti-informed on important topics. I am wondering how do you chose when to believe in the ICC and when not to?
    - mopsi 2y ago
      It's interesting that whenever Russian apologists see pushback, they resort to treating Biden and the US government as a etalon of morality that others should be compared against. I don't share this view. If you want to lock up Cheney next to Putin and his gang, then go ahead.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
vintermann 2y ago
Wait, is there a genocide in Ukraine? If so, is there one in Gaza? I can understand answering yes/yes. I can understand answering no/yes, (realistically, Putin doesn't give a damn about language or folk culture as long has he gets the mineral rights), but I can't understand answering yes/no. Yet that's the official position of the anglosphere leadership and their main political rivals too. What's "democratic values and morals" in practice? To me, it seems that if you sincerely want to change society in any way that redistributes power away from the currently powerful, and the powerful think you have the slightest chance to succeed, then you're as screwed in the democratic west as in any dictatorship. Even if you're perfectly peaceful. Even if all you do is speech and journalism - Julian Assange "won" the right to have his perpetual UK detention extended further a few days ago. The dictatorships are just more insecure in their power, and thus see more challenges as potentially serious, probably rightly so too.
- libertine 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - vintermann 2y ago
    You're not answering what I'm actually saying, and the "footnotes" are just a cheap ploy for gravitas. Assange is the only one who had a serious chance at actual, meaningful political change in the west. In Russia - and for that matter, in Israel - there are far more who might be able to affect power with their journalism. So they murder more journalists, yes. I already said this. There will be no accountability for Israeli war crimes. And they are genocidal, because they actually want to kill or drive out everyone in Gaza who is Palestinian. And they can. Putin, by comparison, doesn't care about ethnicity as long as you're loyal to him personally. You see this directly in the lower number of hospitals bombed and children murdered. Remember what a scandal it was when Putin bombed a hospital? And rightly so! His excuses were identical to the Israeli ones. He is a murderer and a war criminal, but he's not on a mission of extermination. Netanyahu is.
    - libertine 2y ago
foverzar 2y ago
[flagged]
- libertine 2y ago
  > Verifiably false. Go ahead, you could have just come forward with the source. > By the standards of any person from the outside of the bubble noticing how each new layer of doublethink and denial gets cemented with a thick layers of childishly fundamentalist slogans of "democracy vs tyranny", that become ever less credible. Right, so now try a sentence with some content. > What's actually ironic is the uncanny resemblance to good old communism and the way that every discussion could simply be shut down or reality denied by pointing out a "superior moral framework". Who is shutting down discussion based on "superior moral framework" grounds? Who is claiming moral superiority? You know, you don't need to have moral supremacy to point out the Russian regime corrupt morals. You don't need to be a "Western" country to see that. Is Khakstan a Western country? Is Armenia a Western country? Is Mongolia a Western country? Why have 191 countries out of 193 refused to recognize Russian sham referendums on occupied territories and their attempt at annexation? Are they all moral supremacists with layers of double thinking and thick layers of childishly fundamentalist slogans? Perhaps, just perhaps, Russian corruption and mistreatment of its neighbors, and their incapacity of having a proper foreign policy to the point of only having 1 country in Europe aligned with Russia - and it's a propped-up regime enforced by Russia led by Lukashenko, who fled to Turkey (a NATO country) the moment the Wagner Military Coup started. So yet again, very typical of Russian propagandists, you managed to write 4 sentences without saying jack sht.

Garvi 2y ago

[flagged]

hkpack 2y ago
I guess we found the target of these AI-rewritten news stories in the wild. It definitely worked.
- willcipriano 2y ago
  They had to use a AI to "fool him", you were happy with over 20 years of war and all your government had to do was say "they hate us cuz we're free". I wouldn't throw stones.
  - hkpack 2y ago
    > you were happy with over 20 years of war and all your government had to do was say "they hate us cuz we're free". I honestly cannot tell whether you're a bot, troll, or a mentally sick person. You have no idea who I am. You have zero ideas what I was happy or not with for the last 20 years. Writing a paragraph like this makes absolutely no fucking sense. I don't even understand what 20 years of war you're referring to? The next commenter in a similar fashion accused me of working hard to prove something about Epstein. You cannot just imagine random things about strangers on the internet and then believe in it.
    - Garvi 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - libertine 2y ago
      This is part of the Russian propaganda way of engaging on social media. The common patterns are: - they make bold and elaborate claims, filled with resentment from random past events (usually pinned on the US, or if they're in a rough spot they go back to the colonialism of the past centuries of some countries) - but completely out of context. Example: "Why can't Russia invade Ukraine but the US invaded Iraq!", "Why can't Russia expand borders but Western countries had colonies all over the world?" - they claim you're lying, then proceed to lie without providing sources; - they distort reality with lies, like : "Russia didn't kidnap 25.000 children, they evacuated them from a war zone" -> ignoring the fact that Russia was the cause of the war, they could allow Ukrainians to evacuate their children, and they should have returned the children. And the list goes on, but its all very child-like, empty of content, they can write several paragraphs without saying anything.
      - Garvi 2y ago
        I'm presuming(hoping) you're US American and not European. Have fun with that attitude on your next election. I'll be consuming a lot of popcorn.
        libertine 2y ago
        We just had elections a few months ago, it went great. And if it wasn't, that's the great thing about democracies, in a few years it changes. Not for Russians though which I have no idea if you are or not, but you're very resentful of Western countries (its common on some Russians, Indians, etc...) Maybe you should look more at the shortcomings of the regime you're stuck with, and don't worry about the others who are doing great. This is especially funny since you're using the privilege of a Western-made platform, most likely with Western tech.
- Garvi 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - hkpack 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - Garvi 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - hkpack 2y ago
        Look, I don't live in the US and not obsessed with political wars there. Your comments accusing me of working hard to prove something about Epstein just make no sense to me. You found the last person on the internet worth talking about this person on a tech forum.
  - drtgh 2y ago
    I'm going try to explain, although I smell you are the one that is not going to understand. While people who only rely on TV to know what is happening in Ukraine may be only getting 1/9 of the complete picture, based on your flagged comment (that I had time to read), I humbly assume you only have 3/9 of the complete picture. You're defending a Carcharodon carcharias shark (Russia governance) in a fight against a Sphyrnidae shark (Ukrania governance) that is replacing an Isurus oxyrinchus shark (Family Lamnidae, I remark). In any case, fight between sharks, each doing what they do best, to bleed the fish, aka citizens, while the remoras feed on selling tools to sharpen their teeth. I think Ukrainian citizens are the ones that deserve protection, as well as Russian citizens trying to stop the blood. So, IMHO, we, as mere fish, should not help any of the predators propaganda. With your 3/9 of the complete picture you are under the Carcharodon carcharias domain, a predator who won't hesitate to bite you as soon as it gets hungry.
    - Garvi 2y ago
      You chose an awfully complicated way to say something that's most simple: "Everyone's wrong". And if that's your point, it's a cheap cop out. I don't think you worry about the Russian citizens of Ukraine more than you worry about cheering for your team. You could check the UN reports on what's been happening there during the 8 years of civil war we chose to ignore, as if the world started with Russians "completely unprovoked" invasion. I guess we can both agree that Russian actions aren't silly, dumb or random, but calculated. I have to admit I don't follow journalism that has lied to me in the past, so I don't know exactly what they're selling you, but I am interested. So what is your position on why Russia attacked Ukraine? For natural resources(I guess geography was taken off the curriculum after I was in school), invasion of the whole of Europe (I remember friends calling me in panic what to do, now that the Russians are coming.. I live in a EU country fairly west), or just pure hatred for Ukrainians in their heart (Balkan style)?
mopsi 2y ago
>> genocide in Ukraine > I would be very interested what your daily news sources are. Putin is literally wanted by the International Criminal Court for forcible transfer of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children, which is a crime of genocide that he foolishly boasted about in public without understanding its full ramifications.
- Garvi 2y ago
  You mean the ICC that Biden just announced is going to be sanctioned for being dishonest? The ICC the US has an Act about attacking in case US war criminals be held there? The court that keeps ignoring regular illegal US invasions of foreign countries (I don't have the memory to recall all of them in my lifetime alone.. must be somewhere in the high 50s). How's that invasion of Syria going? Do you even know about it? That's what my posts are about: our western world being anti-informed on important topics. I am wondering how do you chose when to believe in the ICC and when not to?
  - mopsi 2y ago
    It's interesting that whenever Russian apologists see pushback, they resort to treating Biden and the US government as a etalon of morality that others should be compared against. I don't share this view. If you want to lock up Cheney next to Putin and his gang, then go ahead.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

vintermann 2y ago

Wait, is there a genocide in Ukraine? If so, is there one in Gaza? I can understand answering yes/yes. I can understand answering no/yes, (realistically, Putin doesn't give a damn about language or folk culture as long has he gets the mineral rights), but I can't understand answering yes/no. Yet that's the official position of the anglosphere leadership and their main political rivals too. What's "democratic values and morals" in practice? To me, it seems that if you sincerely want to change society in any way that redistributes power away from the currently powerful, and the powerful think you have the slightest chance to succeed, then you're as screwed in the democratic west as in any dictatorship. Even if you're perfectly peaceful. Even if all you do is speech and journalism - Julian Assange "won" the right to have his perpetual UK detention extended further a few days ago. The dictatorships are just more insecure in their power, and thus see more challenges as potentially serious, probably rightly so too.

libertine 2y ago
[flagged]
- vintermann 2y ago
  You're not answering what I'm actually saying, and the "footnotes" are just a cheap ploy for gravitas. Assange is the only one who had a serious chance at actual, meaningful political change in the west. In Russia - and for that matter, in Israel - there are far more who might be able to affect power with their journalism. So they murder more journalists, yes. I already said this. There will be no accountability for Israeli war crimes. And they are genocidal, because they actually want to kill or drive out everyone in Gaza who is Palestinian. And they can. Putin, by comparison, doesn't care about ethnicity as long as you're loyal to him personally. You see this directly in the lower number of hospitals bombed and children murdered. Remember what a scandal it was when Putin bombed a hospital? And rightly so! His excuses were identical to the Israeli ones. He is a murderer and a war criminal, but he's not on a mission of extermination. Netanyahu is.
  - libertine 2y ago

foverzar 2y ago

[flagged]

libertine 2y ago
> Verifiably false. Go ahead, you could have just come forward with the source. > By the standards of any person from the outside of the bubble noticing how each new layer of doublethink and denial gets cemented with a thick layers of childishly fundamentalist slogans of "democracy vs tyranny", that become ever less credible. Right, so now try a sentence with some content. > What's actually ironic is the uncanny resemblance to good old communism and the way that every discussion could simply be shut down or reality denied by pointing out a "superior moral framework". Who is shutting down discussion based on "superior moral framework" grounds? Who is claiming moral superiority? You know, you don't need to have moral supremacy to point out the Russian regime corrupt morals. You don't need to be a "Western" country to see that. Is Khakstan a Western country? Is Armenia a Western country? Is Mongolia a Western country? Why have 191 countries out of 193 refused to recognize Russian sham referendums on occupied territories and their attempt at annexation? Are they all moral supremacists with layers of double thinking and thick layers of childishly fundamentalist slogans? Perhaps, just perhaps, Russian corruption and mistreatment of its neighbors, and their incapacity of having a proper foreign policy to the point of only having 1 country in Europe aligned with Russia - and it's a propped-up regime enforced by Russia led by Lukashenko, who fled to Turkey (a NATO country) the moment the Wagner Military Coup started. So yet again, very typical of Russian propagandists, you managed to write 4 sentences without saying jack sht.