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> There was a stark contrast between those of us who had designed our projects completely ourselves, and those who had significant mentors/lab affiliations. Sa

by tomcam 2y ago

> There was a stark contrast between those of us who had designed our projects completely ourselves, and those who had significant mentors/lab affiliations. Said with kindness and discretion. Parental "help", e.g. doing most or all of the work for a science fair entry, is an open secret among Asian communities. It has been for decades. I know firsthand that many Chinese-born parents don't even view it as at all wrong.

UncleMeat 2y ago
Many many years ago I participated in a national history competition and went to nationals. The participants were almost entirely white, and there was absolutely this "well its obvious the parents didi this" thing there too.
strikelaserclaw 2y ago
due to growing up in cut throat dog eat dog culture, a lot of people from asia don't really teach their kids about ethics and morality even whilst living in western societies, many times they encourage the opposite.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
WillPostForFood 2y ago
We are family friends with a Chinese national who did pretty well in this year's ISEF. They spent last summer back in mainland China at a private science fair camp where they prepped and prebuilt most of their project for the year. They are very bright, did a ton of real work, but had a large paid team behind them supporting and helping. They almost could have professional and amateur divisions at this point.
alfalfasprout 2y ago
Yep and this is a big problem. Because while the fraud in this article was clear cut… in many other cases there can be significant misrepresentation about the student’s actual novel contributions.
vsnf 2y ago
> Parental "help", e.g. doing most or all of the work for a science fair entry, is an open secret among Asian communities. This has been a meme/running gag in countless sitcoms and Sunday morning newspaper comic strips for as long as I can remember. Not the Asian community part, just the 'parents actually doing the work' part. The joke is typically about overly competitive middle class suburban fathers juxtaposed against their children who have better things to do than care about dorky school projects.
- neilv 2y ago
  The Cub Scout Pinewood Derby that I saw -- in which the kid is to carve a model car out of a block of wood at home, to race at an event -- they had wisely issued extra kits ahead of time, for those parents who would get a little too enthusiastic about helping Junior, and had separate races among the parents' cars. Of course, the stakes were much smaller than an award or school admission that potentially makes/breaks your child's brilliant future career.
  - tromp 2y ago
    As featured in South Park episode "Pinewood Derby" [1] [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinewood_Derby_(South_Park) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinewood_Derby_(South_Park) [2] https://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/oki0th/south-park-pinewood-derby-season-13-ep-6 https://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/oki0th/south-park-...
    - esdf 2y ago
      Also a (not south park) movie! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Derby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Derby
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    Do you need to have a child to get in on the parents segment of your cub scout's pinewood derby race? Asking for a friend.
anal_reactor 2y ago
Unfortunately, many cultures don't see honesty as a value on its own. In Polish there's a word "frajer" which is an offensive term for someone who got cheated or didn't take advantage of a situation. The logic is that, if the society as a whole is dishonest, then it doesn't make sense to be a martyr recognized by no-one, and it's better to make sure you take care of yourself first.
- nsajko 2y ago
  Fun fact: that's actually a Yiddish word: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/frajer https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/frajer English translation: dope, sucker. As in there's a sucker born every minute: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_minute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_...
  - alex-korr 2y ago
    The word is widely used in Russian as well.
  - eigenket 2y ago
    Fun fact: according to the etymology I could find online it's actually originally a German word (meaning client of a prostitute) that was borrowed by Yiddish, then borrowed in turn by Polish from Yiddish and also ended up in a couple of other European languages.
    - tokai 2y ago
      Yiddish is a German language.
      - eigenket 2y ago
        Not exclusively. It has elements from Hebrew and Aramaic (of course) as well as from various Slavic languages. A big chunk of it derives from High German but not all.

by tomcam 2y ago

UncleMeat 2y ago

Many many years ago I participated in a national history competition and went to nationals. The participants were almost entirely white, and there was absolutely this "well its obvious the parents didi this" thing there too.

strikelaserclaw 2y ago

due to growing up in cut throat dog eat dog culture, a lot of people from asia don't really teach their kids about ethics and morality even whilst living in western societies, many times they encourage the opposite.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

WillPostForFood 2y ago

We are family friends with a Chinese national who did pretty well in this year's ISEF. They spent last summer back in mainland China at a private science fair camp where they prepped and prebuilt most of their project for the year. They are very bright, did a ton of real work, but had a large paid team behind them supporting and helping. They almost could have professional and amateur divisions at this point.

alfalfasprout 2y ago

Yep and this is a big problem. Because while the fraud in this article was clear cut… in many other cases there can be significant misrepresentation about the student’s actual novel contributions.

vsnf 2y ago

> Parental "help", e.g. doing most or all of the work for a science fair entry, is an open secret among Asian communities. This has been a meme/running gag in countless sitcoms and Sunday morning newspaper comic strips for as long as I can remember. Not the Asian community part, just the 'parents actually doing the work' part. The joke is typically about overly competitive middle class suburban fathers juxtaposed against their children who have better things to do than care about dorky school projects.

neilv 2y ago
The Cub Scout Pinewood Derby that I saw -- in which the kid is to carve a model car out of a block of wood at home, to race at an event -- they had wisely issued extra kits ahead of time, for those parents who would get a little too enthusiastic about helping Junior, and had separate races among the parents' cars. Of course, the stakes were much smaller than an award or school admission that potentially makes/breaks your child's brilliant future career.
- tromp 2y ago
  As featured in South Park episode "Pinewood Derby" [1] [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinewood_Derby_(South_Park) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinewood_Derby_(South_Park) [2] https://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/oki0th/south-park-pinewood-derby-season-13-ep-6 https://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/oki0th/south-park-...
  - esdf 2y ago
    Also a (not south park) movie! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Derby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Derby
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  Do you need to have a child to get in on the parents segment of your cub scout's pinewood derby race? Asking for a friend.

anal_reactor 2y ago

Unfortunately, many cultures don't see honesty as a value on its own. In Polish there's a word "frajer" which is an offensive term for someone who got cheated or didn't take advantage of a situation. The logic is that, if the society as a whole is dishonest, then it doesn't make sense to be a martyr recognized by no-one, and it's better to make sure you take care of yourself first.

nsajko 2y ago
Fun fact: that's actually a Yiddish word: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/frajer https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/frajer English translation: dope, sucker. As in there's a sucker born every minute: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_minute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_...
- alex-korr 2y ago
  The word is widely used in Russian as well.
- eigenket 2y ago
  Fun fact: according to the etymology I could find online it's actually originally a German word (meaning client of a prostitute) that was borrowed by Yiddish, then borrowed in turn by Polish from Yiddish and also ended up in a couple of other European languages.
  - tokai 2y ago
    Yiddish is a German language.
    - eigenket 2y ago
      Not exclusively. It has elements from Hebrew and Aramaic (of course) as well as from various Slavic languages. A big chunk of it derives from High German but not all.