5 ms·

crosses fingers Please no AI, please no AI, just security and performance improvements. Please no AI. > We are approaching the use of AI in Firefox... Dammit

lxgr 2y ago
I’d love to have a local LLM in Firefox to summarize pages, generate boilerplate in email responses etc. They recently added a fully local translation feature and I love it.
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  Just write your own damn email my word. Imagine you text your friend and an ai model replies. Thats what you are doing to your coworkers.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    If you can convince the entire business world to get rid of formalities, please do go ahead! Otherwise, don't patronize people for using tools that make their jobs/lives easier. English is also not everyone's first language, and sometimes details like a non-awkward salutation or signing off of an email do matter.
- asadotzler 2y ago
  Andre Natal and I did the Firefox translation feature. It started as a research project with Mozilla and some EU schools and was called Bergamot. We adapted that for Firefox starting a couple years ago and shipped last year. The technology was a perfect fit for the user feature. I think the same holds for summarization (a Reader View feature maybe?) and as someone what was on Firefox's A11Y team for almost 5 years, I think there's some work Mozilla could do with image alt text and perhaps fixing up some common quirks that trip up screen readers so they don't have to do that fixing themselves. There are several places I believe this relatively new tech fits perfectly with web browser use cases. Those mostly aren't monetize-able though, so they're "for users" not "for money" and users don't really seem to be up for grabs these days, too locked into their routines, and so those features may not even be competitive advantages. Still, doing good for your existing user base by incorporating new tech that fits their use cases well, even if it doesn't make you more money or win you more uses is a good thing and the fact that Mozilla's not chasing growth like FANG and others means they can do more of that unprofitable "good stuff." I worked on Mozilla for 25 years. It was an amazing ride and knowing what I know about Mozilla I feel confident they'll behave not just responsibly with AI, but as paragons of virtue and a north star for the industry (and perhaps even for governments as the Mozilla Foundation has been working on responsible AI for half a decade and is in regular contact with the US and EU governments on just these kinds of issues.)
wkat4242 2y ago
Haha. Everyone is working on AI now. It's the latest Blockchain, NFT etc. Many of these "products" are just hot air. Time will weed out the crap. It's not like we're stuck with nonsense Blockchain features now from the last hype (even though signal and others did work to implement that BS, it's not in the way or even remotely relevant)
odiroot 2y ago
Hey, at least it's not Blockchain!
beretguy 2y ago
I hope WaterFox/LibreWolf will remove those AI stuff. Or give option to disable.
asadotzler 2y ago
Andre Natal and I built the first real AI into Firefox starting a couple years ago with Firefox translations. The models are fully local, downloaded on demand, and pivot around English so you only need a few to get pretty good coverage. It's an excellent use of the technology. 15 years ago, machine learning started making its way into Firefox in a big way with the Awesomebar's learning algorithms that get the sites you visit frequently auto-completing easier. That work was mostly Ed Lee in the early days and makes Firefox's addressbar far superior to Chromes (and back then Chrome said it was a superior algo but they couldn't take the 10 ms hit to the Omnibox popup performance so users could just type a lot more to get where they wanted to go).
Nab443 2y ago
Come on.. "hey Firefox, can you give me a summary of what's being said on my FB groups ont the side panel, and keep that updated every morning? Ho, and can you show me a boorkmak to start the coffee machine when I browse before 11am?"
not_your_vase 2y ago
Nevermind that, I'm just happy that finally they are done with their constant reshuffling and removal of options in the UI. > More streamlined menus that reduce visual clutter and prioritize top user actions so you can get to the important things quicker. ...crap...
- nmeagent 2y ago
  Yes, I am looking forward to more userChrome.css changes to un-streamline the damn URL bar back above the tabs once again, as well as to undo whatever other obnoxious UI changes they decide to inflict on us. It's become a regular ritual, performed with much cursing and gnashing of teeth.
  - vasac 2y ago
    On a more positive note, the constant stream of UI updates that used to wreck my userChrome.css fixes led me to switch to the TreeStyleTabs extension. Combined with a few extensions to the base TST extension (yes, extensions for an extension), the UI is now quite comfortable, even with a large number of tabs (SimpleTabGroups extension can help when things become unmanageable).
  - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
    Above the tabs? I need to see that.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
jdlshore 2y ago
Cheap laugh. When you look at the actual example they provide, it seems like a useful feature, and not at all on the AI hype train: > AI-generated alt-text for images inserted into PDFs, which makes it more accessible to visually impaired users and people with learning disabilities. Also, they made a point of talking about privacy and saying it was processed on-device.
- toyg 2y ago
  It seems very much like a nuclear bomb used to go hunting for deer. I'm sure it will be useful to some, but it's the sort of specialized activity that is better left to extensions, particularly when they carry heavy infrastructural burdens that are then paid by everyone. Chances that someone went "how can I justify playing with the new shiny?" are very, very high. Responsible leadership should take away the toys before they do something stupid.
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  I dont want my pdfs being scanned by a model to generate alt text of all things
  - thiht 2y ago
    Good thing you’re not the only user with an opinion
  - luuurker 2y ago
    Don't use it, I guess. You can disable almost everything on Firefox.
- MrDresden 2y ago
  That sounds like a great feature for those that need it. As long as those that do not can turn it off, I can't see an issue with it.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    I'd rather have to turn it on than turn it off.

lxgr 2y ago

I’d love to have a local LLM in Firefox to summarize pages, generate boilerplate in email responses etc. They recently added a fully local translation feature and I love it.

kjkjadksj 2y ago
Just write your own damn email my word. Imagine you text your friend and an ai model replies. Thats what you are doing to your coworkers.
- lxgr 2y ago
  If you can convince the entire business world to get rid of formalities, please do go ahead! Otherwise, don't patronize people for using tools that make their jobs/lives easier. English is also not everyone's first language, and sometimes details like a non-awkward salutation or signing off of an email do matter.
asadotzler 2y ago
Andre Natal and I did the Firefox translation feature. It started as a research project with Mozilla and some EU schools and was called Bergamot. We adapted that for Firefox starting a couple years ago and shipped last year. The technology was a perfect fit for the user feature. I think the same holds for summarization (a Reader View feature maybe?) and as someone what was on Firefox's A11Y team for almost 5 years, I think there's some work Mozilla could do with image alt text and perhaps fixing up some common quirks that trip up screen readers so they don't have to do that fixing themselves. There are several places I believe this relatively new tech fits perfectly with web browser use cases. Those mostly aren't monetize-able though, so they're "for users" not "for money" and users don't really seem to be up for grabs these days, too locked into their routines, and so those features may not even be competitive advantages. Still, doing good for your existing user base by incorporating new tech that fits their use cases well, even if it doesn't make you more money or win you more uses is a good thing and the fact that Mozilla's not chasing growth like FANG and others means they can do more of that unprofitable "good stuff." I worked on Mozilla for 25 years. It was an amazing ride and knowing what I know about Mozilla I feel confident they'll behave not just responsibly with AI, but as paragons of virtue and a north star for the industry (and perhaps even for governments as the Mozilla Foundation has been working on responsible AI for half a decade and is in regular contact with the US and EU governments on just these kinds of issues.)

wkat4242 2y ago

Haha. Everyone is working on AI now. It's the latest Blockchain, NFT etc. Many of these "products" are just hot air. Time will weed out the crap. It's not like we're stuck with nonsense Blockchain features now from the last hype (even though signal and others did work to implement that BS, it's not in the way or even remotely relevant)

odiroot 2y ago

Hey, at least it's not Blockchain!

beretguy 2y ago

I hope WaterFox/LibreWolf will remove those AI stuff. Or give option to disable.

asadotzler 2y ago

Andre Natal and I built the first real AI into Firefox starting a couple years ago with Firefox translations. The models are fully local, downloaded on demand, and pivot around English so you only need a few to get pretty good coverage. It's an excellent use of the technology. 15 years ago, machine learning started making its way into Firefox in a big way with the Awesomebar's learning algorithms that get the sites you visit frequently auto-completing easier. That work was mostly Ed Lee in the early days and makes Firefox's addressbar far superior to Chromes (and back then Chrome said it was a superior algo but they couldn't take the 10 ms hit to the Omnibox popup performance so users could just type a lot more to get where they wanted to go).

Nab443 2y ago

Come on.. "hey Firefox, can you give me a summary of what's being said on my FB groups ont the side panel, and keep that updated every morning? Ho, and can you show me a boorkmak to start the coffee machine when I browse before 11am?"

not_your_vase 2y ago

Nevermind that, I'm just happy that finally they are done with their constant reshuffling and removal of options in the UI. > More streamlined menus that reduce visual clutter and prioritize top user actions so you can get to the important things quicker. ...crap...

nmeagent 2y ago
Yes, I am looking forward to more userChrome.css changes to un-streamline the damn URL bar back above the tabs once again, as well as to undo whatever other obnoxious UI changes they decide to inflict on us. It's become a regular ritual, performed with much cursing and gnashing of teeth.
- vasac 2y ago
  On a more positive note, the constant stream of UI updates that used to wreck my userChrome.css fixes led me to switch to the TreeStyleTabs extension. Combined with a few extensions to the base TST extension (yes, extensions for an extension), the UI is now quite comfortable, even with a large number of tabs (SimpleTabGroups extension can help when things become unmanageable).
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
  Above the tabs? I need to see that.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

jdlshore 2y ago

Cheap laugh. When you look at the actual example they provide, it seems like a useful feature, and not at all on the AI hype train: > AI-generated alt-text for images inserted into PDFs, which makes it more accessible to visually impaired users and people with learning disabilities. Also, they made a point of talking about privacy and saying it was processed on-device.

toyg 2y ago
It seems very much like a nuclear bomb used to go hunting for deer. I'm sure it will be useful to some, but it's the sort of specialized activity that is better left to extensions, particularly when they carry heavy infrastructural burdens that are then paid by everyone. Chances that someone went "how can I justify playing with the new shiny?" are very, very high. Responsible leadership should take away the toys before they do something stupid.
kjkjadksj 2y ago
I dont want my pdfs being scanned by a model to generate alt text of all things
- thiht 2y ago
  Good thing you’re not the only user with an opinion
- luuurker 2y ago
  Don't use it, I guess. You can disable almost everything on Firefox.
MrDresden 2y ago
That sounds like a great feature for those that need it. As long as those that do not can turn it off, I can't see an issue with it.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  I'd rather have to turn it on than turn it off.