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This looks promising. I'm occasionally interested in trying out different project management software. The challenge lies in overcoming the momentum of the spec

This looks promising. I'm occasionally interested in trying out different project management software. The challenge lies in overcoming the momentum of the specific tool we're already entrenched in at work. Even if I discover a superior tool, it's unlikely I'll have the opportunity to implement it. Has anyone managed to adopt a different tool successfully, diverging from what the team is using, or is it simply unfeasible without team-wide adoption?

bravura 2y ago
Perhaps instead of new tools to compete with the entrenched, we should be building new frontends. How many people forced to use JIRA or Salesforce would jump at the opportunity to have a better interface?
- solatic 2y ago
  A different frontend wouldn't fix Jira. It's slow because the underlying APIs are slow. The frustrations mount mostly from the sheer number of rules that are built on top of it by users; if your alternate UI obeys those rules it will still frustrate users.
- jitl 2y ago
  (I work on a tool completing with the entrenched) Building one’s business solely dependent on the grace of another’s API access is a pretty precarious position. Beyond that the incumbent APIs are usually slow and severely rate limited. Building improvements on top would necessitate a complex sync/caching system, plus if you want to layer on real time collaboration your job is even harder since you need to maintain your own state (for collab in your CRDT format or whatever) that you periodically reconcile with the underlying tool. At that point, you already need a complete backend so you might as well be a stand alone product and just offer 2-way sync with the incumbent as a value add feature. Anyways, we built something like that https://www.notion.so/help/guides/synced-databases-bridge-different-tools https://www.notion.so/help/guides/synced-databases-bridge-di...
bjelkeman-again 2y ago
Have you found any you’d want to swap to?
resonious 2y ago
My current workplace is pretty lean and flexible when it comes to this kind of thing, and we've tried a few different project management solutions over the years. Without fail, the new solution looks great at first glance and feels great as we start using it. Then it gradually becomes annoying and horrible just like the last one, and people start yearning for Jira. The horrible-ness usually comes from straight up bugs, a lack of comprehensive reporting, weak integrations with other tools, and/or a UX that doesn't jive with certain roles/people. I think it'd be a real challenge to meaningfully compete with Jira. You'd need to not only match its feature set but also be faster than it and less buggy. It seems that being a "not Jira" gets you a good amount of customers off the bat due to how much people loath Jira, but it'll probably take a paradigm shift or a very competent team to overthrow it.
- xwowsersx 2y ago
  Right. It does feel that way. Jira is the worst project management software, except for all the others.
- mikepurvis 2y ago
  IMO Jira is the epitome of a tool being what you make of it. If you keep things simple and pick the slice of features that work for you, don't go crazy with plugins or creating extra ticket fields or mandatory workflow restrictions, you'll be fine. If you have multiple PMs each trying to impose their own view of the world expressed in ticket form, it'll be a fiasco.
  - j45 2y ago
    Very true. I am a reluctant user of JIRA, and once I was past the realization that JIRA isn't meant to be used out of the box, but rather meet your process and production where it is, it kind of fell into place, and there are few pieces of software that can remain straightforward in one area, and be good at absorbing details and complexity as things pop. Linear looks pretty interesting too.
- netghost 2y ago
  I'm curious, what reporting is actually useful to your team. I used to work on a project management tool, and everyone wanted "reporting", but when you got down to what they needed it was usually pretty minimal.

bravura 2y ago

Perhaps instead of new tools to compete with the entrenched, we should be building new frontends. How many people forced to use JIRA or Salesforce would jump at the opportunity to have a better interface?

solatic 2y ago
A different frontend wouldn't fix Jira. It's slow because the underlying APIs are slow. The frustrations mount mostly from the sheer number of rules that are built on top of it by users; if your alternate UI obeys those rules it will still frustrate users.
jitl 2y ago
(I work on a tool completing with the entrenched) Building one’s business solely dependent on the grace of another’s API access is a pretty precarious position. Beyond that the incumbent APIs are usually slow and severely rate limited. Building improvements on top would necessitate a complex sync/caching system, plus if you want to layer on real time collaboration your job is even harder since you need to maintain your own state (for collab in your CRDT format or whatever) that you periodically reconcile with the underlying tool. At that point, you already need a complete backend so you might as well be a stand alone product and just offer 2-way sync with the incumbent as a value add feature. Anyways, we built something like that https://www.notion.so/help/guides/synced-databases-bridge-different-tools https://www.notion.so/help/guides/synced-databases-bridge-di...

bjelkeman-again 2y ago

Have you found any you’d want to swap to?

resonious 2y ago

My current workplace is pretty lean and flexible when it comes to this kind of thing, and we've tried a few different project management solutions over the years. Without fail, the new solution looks great at first glance and feels great as we start using it. Then it gradually becomes annoying and horrible just like the last one, and people start yearning for Jira. The horrible-ness usually comes from straight up bugs, a lack of comprehensive reporting, weak integrations with other tools, and/or a UX that doesn't jive with certain roles/people. I think it'd be a real challenge to meaningfully compete with Jira. You'd need to not only match its feature set but also be faster than it and less buggy. It seems that being a "not Jira" gets you a good amount of customers off the bat due to how much people loath Jira, but it'll probably take a paradigm shift or a very competent team to overthrow it.

xwowsersx 2y ago
Right. It does feel that way. Jira is the worst project management software, except for all the others.
mikepurvis 2y ago
IMO Jira is the epitome of a tool being what you make of it. If you keep things simple and pick the slice of features that work for you, don't go crazy with plugins or creating extra ticket fields or mandatory workflow restrictions, you'll be fine. If you have multiple PMs each trying to impose their own view of the world expressed in ticket form, it'll be a fiasco.
- j45 2y ago
  Very true. I am a reluctant user of JIRA, and once I was past the realization that JIRA isn't meant to be used out of the box, but rather meet your process and production where it is, it kind of fell into place, and there are few pieces of software that can remain straightforward in one area, and be good at absorbing details and complexity as things pop. Linear looks pretty interesting too.
netghost 2y ago
I'm curious, what reporting is actually useful to your team. I used to work on a project management tool, and everyone wanted "reporting", but when you got down to what they needed it was usually pretty minimal.