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So just wait forever? That's why they do the trials, to figure out. I guess this comes to what is more important, his desire to take a chance or your desire to

So just wait forever? That's why they do the trials, to figure out. I guess this comes to what is more important, his desire to take a chance or your desire to prevent that, ostensibly 'for his best interest'

alan-hn 2y ago
What we need is to understand more about how the brain actually works and we do that with animal models not jamming half assed devices into the heads of humans
Filligree 2y ago
Wait forever? No, do the grounding research first. They didn't even know how much the brain was likely to move, for pity's sake. Nor do we have a good handle on scar formation, any necessary immune therapy, ...more or less anything that would be needed if anything at all goes wrong.
- whamlastxmas 2y ago
  Literally all of this is wrong. Those mechanics and risks are well understood
- navjack27 2y ago
  DBS exists and works. It saves people's lives who have essential tremors.
- DoesntMatter22 2y ago
  You make it like you are there and know all the details. Obviously the regulating bodies approved it so they felt there was enough to go forward with it. The way you discover a lot of problems is because of the trial patients. This happens ever day in medicine.
  - numpad0 2y ago
    > The way you discover a lot of problems is because of the trial patients. I don't think that's the case with medical researches at all. They have good ideas of outcome with petri dishes and chimera mice before verifying the result with human trials. They didn't made COVID vaccines by trial and error on living humans, that could have taken a century. Especially with neural stuffs. If they can't make it work not with cultured cells and guinea pigs, there's nothing to be gained from scaling it out to an explosive failure on a launchpad.
    - DoesntMatter22 2y ago
      That doesn't even make any sense. Most cancer drugs that go for human trials never get to market. That's true for most drugs.
      - numpad0 2y ago
        Most cancer drug candidates don't even make into human trials. Human trials are only done after they've figured it all the theories and simulations and animal testing and everything out over decades and it's all verified it won't kill people, then they run RCT and find out it actually does and cancel it. Your assertion is that drugs are discovered on fuck-around-and-find-out basis on live humans, which is simply false and stupid.
bastawhiz 2y ago
Except, as was expected even by Neuralink, it's ultimately going to be a failure. He'll lose whatever cybernetic abilities he has and probably be ineligible to participate in a follow-up surgery to fix it. He got to play some chess for a few months, and all he has to show for it are whatever (likely permanent) side effects he'll be enduring as his brain implant falls out. So yeah, he ultimately got fucked by Neuralink.
- bag_boy 2y ago
  He was, in your words, pretty “fucked” before Neuralink. Did you read the interview from Bloomberg? “Arbaugh had talked with Bain about how he would be receiving what was probably the worst Neuralink implant that anyone would get. But Arbaugh had agreed to the trial precisely because these types of issues could occur. He wanted to be a means for helping other people by aiding Neuralink in its quest to root out any of the implant’s flaws.“
  - bastawhiz 2y ago
    > receiving what was probably the worst Neuralink implant that anyone would get Yeah let's hope that they figure out how to design them to have a track record of literally any of the recipients not dying
    - whamlastxmas 2y ago
      They have endless animals that have been perfectly fine after the implant, and their first human patient is also entirely fine
      - bastawhiz 2y ago
        1. I don't believe they do have endless animals that are in any way fine. I've never read anything supporting this, and in fact, I've read lots of stuff suggesting the exact opposite. 2. He's objectively not, and the implant will become entirely detached probably before the end of the summer. He's also experiencing side effects, according to sources online.

alan-hn 2y ago

What we need is to understand more about how the brain actually works and we do that with animal models not jamming half assed devices into the heads of humans

Filligree 2y ago

Wait forever? No, do the grounding research first. They didn't even know how much the brain was likely to move, for pity's sake. Nor do we have a good handle on scar formation, any necessary immune therapy, ...more or less anything that would be needed if anything at all goes wrong.

whamlastxmas 2y ago
Literally all of this is wrong. Those mechanics and risks are well understood
navjack27 2y ago
DBS exists and works. It saves people's lives who have essential tremors.
DoesntMatter22 2y ago
You make it like you are there and know all the details. Obviously the regulating bodies approved it so they felt there was enough to go forward with it. The way you discover a lot of problems is because of the trial patients. This happens ever day in medicine.
- numpad0 2y ago
  > The way you discover a lot of problems is because of the trial patients. I don't think that's the case with medical researches at all. They have good ideas of outcome with petri dishes and chimera mice before verifying the result with human trials. They didn't made COVID vaccines by trial and error on living humans, that could have taken a century. Especially with neural stuffs. If they can't make it work not with cultured cells and guinea pigs, there's nothing to be gained from scaling it out to an explosive failure on a launchpad.
  - DoesntMatter22 2y ago
    That doesn't even make any sense. Most cancer drugs that go for human trials never get to market. That's true for most drugs.
    - numpad0 2y ago
      Most cancer drug candidates don't even make into human trials. Human trials are only done after they've figured it all the theories and simulations and animal testing and everything out over decades and it's all verified it won't kill people, then they run RCT and find out it actually does and cancel it. Your assertion is that drugs are discovered on fuck-around-and-find-out basis on live humans, which is simply false and stupid.

bastawhiz 2y ago

Except, as was expected even by Neuralink, it's ultimately going to be a failure. He'll lose whatever cybernetic abilities he has and probably be ineligible to participate in a follow-up surgery to fix it. He got to play some chess for a few months, and all he has to show for it are whatever (likely permanent) side effects he'll be enduring as his brain implant falls out. So yeah, he ultimately got fucked by Neuralink.

bag_boy 2y ago
He was, in your words, pretty “fucked” before Neuralink. Did you read the interview from Bloomberg? “Arbaugh had talked with Bain about how he would be receiving what was probably the worst Neuralink implant that anyone would get. But Arbaugh had agreed to the trial precisely because these types of issues could occur. He wanted to be a means for helping other people by aiding Neuralink in its quest to root out any of the implant’s flaws.“
- bastawhiz 2y ago
  > receiving what was probably the worst Neuralink implant that anyone would get Yeah let's hope that they figure out how to design them to have a track record of literally any of the recipients not dying
  - whamlastxmas 2y ago
    They have endless animals that have been perfectly fine after the implant, and their first human patient is also entirely fine
    - bastawhiz 2y ago
      1. I don't believe they do have endless animals that are in any way fine. I've never read anything supporting this, and in fact, I've read lots of stuff suggesting the exact opposite. 2. He's objectively not, and the implant will become entirely detached probably before the end of the summer. He's also experiencing side effects, according to sources online.