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> I can tell you that you are likely to hear extreme management bashing in this case... people who crib, complain and whine are basically people who expect to g

> I can tell you that you are likely to hear extreme management bashing in this case... people who crib, complain and whine are basically people who expect to get rich by 'getting lucky'. Clueless managers who don't understand technology even on a superficial level are a real problem. Has nothing to do with how much engineer makes. > The most common complain is They didn't give me good stuff to work on, yet when you ask the same people what exactly stops them from downloading... Premise is people don't use technologies they like for their personal projects. I don't think that's true for the good hackers out there of course. But what they are talking here is about the work environment and technologies used (enforce) there. Just because you can use better tools for personal projects doesn't mean people shouldn't complain about the prehistoric tools at the their workplace. (And then you go on about money again.) > After doing a lot of analysis... Can you share more details please? Because all the smart people I've known no longer work at Indian firms if they ever did. I no longer work at them either, and trust me it's a (very) very very different environment. My college for a short period tried to not let these Indian consultancies recruit on campus. A question for you. How do you justify developer happiness in an environment where there's no real source control, an impossible to use ticketing system, manager thinks a crawler is an actual hardware device like a photocopy machine, automation code is thrown away as you can't charge the client for that, load-testing results are manipulated to match the requirement (you keep requesting where for some reason out of 10 requests you get 3 "acceptable" data points and take screenshots only of those and report them) and I could go on an on. It's not about the money.

kamaal 14y ago
I've experienced all the trouble you describe. But really if a person is truly interested in learning something, there is nothing really stopping him. It hardly takes anything to go to the internet download python, a tutorial and start building something. If a person can't even do as simple a thing like this for his career, than I seriously doubt he will go through the grind and do all tough work required for success. By all means, complain about getting put into a shitty project. But you can't blame the the company for all your troubles. Because career management really is up to the individual, waiting for somebody else to do it for you really shows lack of seriousness on your part. I know of a few friends who work on COBOL/Mainframes. Quite few times I had advised to pick up a language like Python for their own good. But often the answers are 'What will I get', 'Will I go onsite doing that', 'Look the other guy did nothing and is still at onsite, why cant I get lucky like that'. Trust me these people never want to learn. They just want to have it the easy way. Fast forward when they see a good programmer making it big in a product company suddenly they start cribbing about how company/manager didn't help them grow technically. While the fact is all the while they themselves didn't want to go the technical way. The other parts I totally agree with you. I have faced the same frustration as you do. I even know of managers who had never heard of version control systems. Who never knew what a unit test is, or even simple things like a Excel Macro(Which falls into much of their own work). Coming to those kind of managers, most of them are now facing the heat. Big Corps are cutting down on managerial layers big time. The 90's and early 2000's rush is over. Every one knows that.

kamaal 14y ago

I've experienced all the trouble you describe. But really if a person is truly interested in learning something, there is nothing really stopping him. It hardly takes anything to go to the internet download python, a tutorial and start building something. If a person can't even do as simple a thing like this for his career, than I seriously doubt he will go through the grind and do all tough work required for success. By all means, complain about getting put into a shitty project. But you can't blame the the company for all your troubles. Because career management really is up to the individual, waiting for somebody else to do it for you really shows lack of seriousness on your part. I know of a few friends who work on COBOL/Mainframes. Quite few times I had advised to pick up a language like Python for their own good. But often the answers are 'What will I get', 'Will I go onsite doing that', 'Look the other guy did nothing and is still at onsite, why cant I get lucky like that'. Trust me these people never want to learn. They just want to have it the easy way. Fast forward when they see a good programmer making it big in a product company suddenly they start cribbing about how company/manager didn't help them grow technically. While the fact is all the while they themselves didn't want to go the technical way. The other parts I totally agree with you. I have faced the same frustration as you do. I even know of managers who had never heard of version control systems. Who never knew what a unit test is, or even simple things like a Excel Macro(Which falls into much of their own work). Coming to those kind of managers, most of them are now facing the heat. Big Corps are cutting down on managerial layers big time. The 90's and early 2000's rush is over. Every one knows that.