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This is like saying people buy baldur's gate because you can undress your characters or make them date Consumers don't want pornography in their games, they're

This is like saying people buy baldur's gate because you can undress your characters or make them date Consumers don't want pornography in their games, they're completely different products: visual novels are closer to a slideshow than a game People buy good games and they consume pornography, conflating the two doesn't help us analyse the market. That said, I agree there is probably more money in pornography than in making indie games (which explains the explosion of the genre)

dev1ycan 2y ago
Again, literally not true because of how big sites that aren't steam for those games are, and how many games are being made and how much they sell on steam. Yes obviously no one is saying elden ring will have pornography, but there are a lot of games that did sell or would sell more with more romance and to a stronger extent sex stuff in them. For example take an RPG, like Witcher, Cyberpunk, etc. They skirted the line but it's obvious that people want to get to that point in the in-game relationships, it is what it is, it might offend certain people but fact of the matter is, I don't think the people offended are a majority. You can always have that content as a DLC and sell it separately and or to block it from countries that don't allow it, but let's not pretend like it doesn't sell.
- PeterisP 2y ago
  Sure, but that's digressing from the key point of the grandparent post about the visual novels - that this median number of "game" revenue is meaningless, because steam sales conflate to entirely different markets i.e. proper games and visual novels, and since the latter outnumber the former but each generally get far less sales (as the market demand is so differently structured) the number isn't informative about the revenue of actual games; and if we want to reason about the game market financials, we have to split the porn in a separate category, as it's too different (money- and sales-wise, it's not about prudeness) to be treated as just one of the genres.
jncfhnb 2y ago
I think a lot of people would absolutely adore a local co op rpg with protagonist romance tbh Larian very very lightly did this in divinity 1 and I was kind of bummed out that it wasn’t fleshed out playing with my wife.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
>Consumers don't want pornography in their games, I kinda do. I just want them to be more than a fade to black implication or awkward not even colliding meshes with low res genetalia. It's a landmine, so no AAA dev is doing any of that, and it's really high tech to do convincingly so few indies can pull it off. That's why 2d works like VN's tend to be the best compromise. a gif loop or a few still frames and a seductive voice can be just enough to sell the scene. > they're completely different products: visual novels are closer to a slideshow than a game most western ones. They're "expensive" to westerners, but if you ever buy a decent Japanese VN you can understand the appeal. full voice acting, multiple different scenes and poses, an actual attempt at a narrative (we can argue all day if it's good, but so many western ones have shifted to "haha quirky meta" as a substitute for substance), good music, etc. Some even have some surprisingly addicting gameplay, which makes you question why it's categorized as a "visual novel". But that's marketing for you. I don't blame you for your opinion, but I assure you it can be done right.

dev1ycan 2y ago

Again, literally not true because of how big sites that aren't steam for those games are, and how many games are being made and how much they sell on steam. Yes obviously no one is saying elden ring will have pornography, but there are a lot of games that did sell or would sell more with more romance and to a stronger extent sex stuff in them. For example take an RPG, like Witcher, Cyberpunk, etc. They skirted the line but it's obvious that people want to get to that point in the in-game relationships, it is what it is, it might offend certain people but fact of the matter is, I don't think the people offended are a majority. You can always have that content as a DLC and sell it separately and or to block it from countries that don't allow it, but let's not pretend like it doesn't sell.

PeterisP 2y ago
Sure, but that's digressing from the key point of the grandparent post about the visual novels - that this median number of "game" revenue is meaningless, because steam sales conflate to entirely different markets i.e. proper games and visual novels, and since the latter outnumber the former but each generally get far less sales (as the market demand is so differently structured) the number isn't informative about the revenue of actual games; and if we want to reason about the game market financials, we have to split the porn in a separate category, as it's too different (money- and sales-wise, it's not about prudeness) to be treated as just one of the genres.

jncfhnb 2y ago

I think a lot of people would absolutely adore a local co op rpg with protagonist romance tbh Larian very very lightly did this in divinity 1 and I was kind of bummed out that it wasn’t fleshed out playing with my wife.

johnnyanmac 2y ago

>Consumers don't want pornography in their games, I kinda do. I just want them to be more than a fade to black implication or awkward not even colliding meshes with low res genetalia. It's a landmine, so no AAA dev is doing any of that, and it's really high tech to do convincingly so few indies can pull it off. That's why 2d works like VN's tend to be the best compromise. a gif loop or a few still frames and a seductive voice can be just enough to sell the scene. > they're completely different products: visual novels are closer to a slideshow than a game most western ones. They're "expensive" to westerners, but if you ever buy a decent Japanese VN you can understand the appeal. full voice acting, multiple different scenes and poses, an actual attempt at a narrative (we can argue all day if it's good, but so many western ones have shifted to "haha quirky meta" as a substitute for substance), good music, etc. Some even have some surprisingly addicting gameplay, which makes you question why it's categorized as a "visual novel". But that's marketing for you. I don't blame you for your opinion, but I assure you it can be done right.