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I agree with the conflict of interest, but the rest... not so much. First, I don't agree that lobbying is a good thing, in general. It's made our democracy mor

I agree with the conflict of interest, but the rest... not so much. First, I don't agree that lobbying is a good thing, in general. It's made our democracy more of a plutocracy<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index>. Citizen's united in 2010 really hurt us here. 'When a nonprofit group pays for political activities, I could see why someone might refer to it all as "lobbying"' --I think your confused here as trade groups are NOT non-profit groups. Non- profits can't do much lobbying<https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/lobbying https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/lobbying> Calling a Comcast lobbyist for information, is like me asking a car sales person, what car I should get. He will undoubtedly point to industry paid for studies that, for obvious reason's should be considered suspect at best 1. There are experts that aren't employed by companies or trade groups. 2. A success story for unbiased information has been the CBO. It's not perfect, but from everything I've read, it's done better than either party in it's predictions, overall. We should have more like it, for research, because that's what's needed and rely on other less biased experts.

legitster 2y ago
> I think your confused here as trade groups are NOT non-profit groups. Non- profits can't do much lobbying The point of the original article was about 501(c)(4) organizations running PR campaigns. And that they don't really have direct sway with lawmakers. That's what I was speaking to. I think the CBO is an amazing accounting organization, but even they rely on industry data organization and commercial forecasts and outside consultants. Regardless of how you feel about Citizen's United and PACs, any representative democracy is going to have lobbyists. The only thing that changes is who's allowed to have one, how you account for them, and what you call them.
parineum 2y ago
> First, I don't agree that lobbying is a good thing, in general. You don't think it's a good thing that I can call my congressman and express my opinions and concerns?
- ftth_finland 2y ago
  You calling your congressman is a wee bit different than a using multiple millions of dark money to influence legislators.
  - parineum 2y ago
    > First, I don't agree that lobbying is a good thing, in general. Me calling my congressman is lobbying. > using multiple millions of dark money to influence legislators I use dark votes to pick my legislators.
    - ftth_finland 2y ago
      Why are you quoting somebody else when replying to me? You’ll have to be more specific about what you mean by dark votes.

legitster 2y ago

> I think your confused here as trade groups are NOT non-profit groups. Non- profits can't do much lobbying The point of the original article was about 501(c)(4) organizations running PR campaigns. And that they don't really have direct sway with lawmakers. That's what I was speaking to. I think the CBO is an amazing accounting organization, but even they rely on industry data organization and commercial forecasts and outside consultants. Regardless of how you feel about Citizen's United and PACs, any representative democracy is going to have lobbyists. The only thing that changes is who's allowed to have one, how you account for them, and what you call them.

parineum 2y ago

> First, I don't agree that lobbying is a good thing, in general. You don't think it's a good thing that I can call my congressman and express my opinions and concerns?

ftth_finland 2y ago
You calling your congressman is a wee bit different than a using multiple millions of dark money to influence legislators.
- parineum 2y ago
  > First, I don't agree that lobbying is a good thing, in general. Me calling my congressman is lobbying. > using multiple millions of dark money to influence legislators I use dark votes to pick my legislators.
  - ftth_finland 2y ago
    Why are you quoting somebody else when replying to me? You’ll have to be more specific about what you mean by dark votes.