3 ms·

I really give zero shits about people receiving windfalls of over $1M in a single year. They can pay an extra 4K per million just fine. There are no tears shed

I really give zero shits about people receiving windfalls of over $1M in a single year. They can pay an extra 4K per million just fine. There are no tears shed for these people.

silverquiet 2y ago
Yes, I know snark is discouraged, but any time I hear this sort of plutocrat apologia, I want to respond, "oh yeah, why won't someone think of those poor, poor rich people with their million dollar windfalls". I always suspect a bit of astroturfing, but it's entirely possible that the propaganda has been internalized by those repeating it. But to them I say that if there's anyone in society you don't need to worry about, it's the rich (and anyone who's looking at a one mil windfall is going to be rich); they're going to be just fine.
- hedora 2y ago
  It’s “windfall”, singular. In a sibling comment, I explained what the situation looks like for that group out here in California (hint: people paying these taxes can’t necessarily afford a house).
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    The top ten percent of people in the richest state in the richest country in the world are in fact rich. I'm sure they have their own status games they play that make them feel inferior to one another (what other point is there to such games?), and yes, they are small fish compared to actual plutocrats, but I assure you that they will find some way to make things work, just like the people who live off fractions of their income do.
    - hedora 2y ago
      These taxes reach far below the 90th percentile line here. Also, money is not worth the same amount here as it is in other states. You may as well be comparing British Pounds and US Dollars without applying an exchange rate (except that the gap between the dollar and pound is currently smaller than the gap between US dollar in California, and, say, Arizona).
      - silverquiet 2y ago
        > money is not worth the same amount here as it is in other states One of the problems of wealth no doubt, but I am still bereft of tears for them. Imagine trying to make due with the merely the median household income in such a rich state, and not even getting the odd million dollar windfall once in awhile. And then realize that half of households must make due with less than that.
      - phone8675309 2y ago
        The people who live in CA and are in the 90th percentile are making more money to compensate for it being a high cost of living area, so it all comes out in the wash.
      - jncfhnb 2y ago
        An income of 1,000,000 is well above the 99th percentile of household income in California.
x86a 2y ago
As a solidly-middle-class tech worker in Massachusetts, your stance hurts a bit. I'm a life-long renter with a family and elderly mother to support, and an IPO windfall would give me some much needed breathing room. I don't know who you picture when you think of a windfall recipient, but I can assure you I am not lighting any cigars with $100 bills.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  Poor baby getting $540k after tax instead of $580k On your $1M windfall. How will you sleep at night? (Edit: and that’s aggressively acting as if the marginal income tax rates were applied to the whole thing)
hedora 2y ago
I guess this tax is under 50%, but once you cross that line, things get bad fast. Consider building a house after the trump tax hikes in California with $1M from the top tax bracket. After income tax, there’s $490K left. Next come the Canadian lumber tariffs, which increased base cost per square foot from $300 to $360, which is another 20% effective tax. Now there’s only $400K left. (Covid also increased prices. Ignore that.) A normal time to IPO is 5-10 years, during which time people accept a depressed salary. The windfall post-tax is only $40-80K per year per million paid out, and salaries are typically at least $50-100K under market value. On top of that, there are local “screw the rich people that can build homes” fees and regulations that nearly double the cost of construction, so that $1M ends up being $200-250K in actual purchasing power. So, assume they but instead of build, and don’t pay those fees. $490K is something like one third of a house around here, so the person ends up borrowing to cover the tax. Their average income was something like $240-280K (pre inflation numbers, pre-tax), which is 91th percentile California household income, and those are “jackpot” years for that person. However, they ended up paying two years pre-tax salaries (3 years post tax) in income tax if they buy a house, and 6 years post-tax salary if they build. Of course, the above is nuanced, so most people are all like “yeah, screw the rich” without realizing these taxes disproportionately hit the middle class.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  I can’t follow this at all
  - hedora 2y ago
    That’s why these taxes and gotcha fees are so popular with voters. California specifically targets people trying to build houses, which is one reason we have a housing crisis. It’s “only” another 4%, but if the millionaire tax ends up increasing someone’s effective tax rate from 76% to 80%, then it cuts post-tax income by almost 20% and it hits people whose average incomes are middle class. I have no idea if things are like this in Massachusetts.
    - jncfhnb 2y ago
KevinMS 2y ago
A windfall could represent decades of unpaid work.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  Sounds like a really bad strategy then

I really give zero shits about people receiving windfalls of over $1M in a single year. They can pay an extra 4K per million just fine. There are no tears shed for these people.

silverquiet 2y ago

Yes, I know snark is discouraged, but any time I hear this sort of plutocrat apologia, I want to respond, "oh yeah, why won't someone think of those poor, poor rich people with their million dollar windfalls". I always suspect a bit of astroturfing, but it's entirely possible that the propaganda has been internalized by those repeating it. But to them I say that if there's anyone in society you don't need to worry about, it's the rich (and anyone who's looking at a one mil windfall is going to be rich); they're going to be just fine.

hedora 2y ago
It’s “windfall”, singular. In a sibling comment, I explained what the situation looks like for that group out here in California (hint: people paying these taxes can’t necessarily afford a house).
- silverquiet 2y ago
  The top ten percent of people in the richest state in the richest country in the world are in fact rich. I'm sure they have their own status games they play that make them feel inferior to one another (what other point is there to such games?), and yes, they are small fish compared to actual plutocrats, but I assure you that they will find some way to make things work, just like the people who live off fractions of their income do.
  - hedora 2y ago
    These taxes reach far below the 90th percentile line here. Also, money is not worth the same amount here as it is in other states. You may as well be comparing British Pounds and US Dollars without applying an exchange rate (except that the gap between the dollar and pound is currently smaller than the gap between US dollar in California, and, say, Arizona).
    - silverquiet 2y ago
      > money is not worth the same amount here as it is in other states One of the problems of wealth no doubt, but I am still bereft of tears for them. Imagine trying to make due with the merely the median household income in such a rich state, and not even getting the odd million dollar windfall once in awhile. And then realize that half of households must make due with less than that.
    - phone8675309 2y ago
      The people who live in CA and are in the 90th percentile are making more money to compensate for it being a high cost of living area, so it all comes out in the wash.
    - jncfhnb 2y ago
      An income of 1,000,000 is well above the 99th percentile of household income in California.

x86a 2y ago

As a solidly-middle-class tech worker in Massachusetts, your stance hurts a bit. I'm a life-long renter with a family and elderly mother to support, and an IPO windfall would give me some much needed breathing room. I don't know who you picture when you think of a windfall recipient, but I can assure you I am not lighting any cigars with $100 bills.

jncfhnb 2y ago
Poor baby getting $540k after tax instead of $580k On your $1M windfall. How will you sleep at night? (Edit: and that’s aggressively acting as if the marginal income tax rates were applied to the whole thing)

hedora 2y ago

I guess this tax is under 50%, but once you cross that line, things get bad fast. Consider building a house after the trump tax hikes in California with $1M from the top tax bracket. After income tax, there’s $490K left. Next come the Canadian lumber tariffs, which increased base cost per square foot from $300 to $360, which is another 20% effective tax. Now there’s only $400K left. (Covid also increased prices. Ignore that.) A normal time to IPO is 5-10 years, during which time people accept a depressed salary. The windfall post-tax is only $40-80K per year per million paid out, and salaries are typically at least $50-100K under market value. On top of that, there are local “screw the rich people that can build homes” fees and regulations that nearly double the cost of construction, so that $1M ends up being $200-250K in actual purchasing power. So, assume they but instead of build, and don’t pay those fees. $490K is something like one third of a house around here, so the person ends up borrowing to cover the tax. Their average income was something like $240-280K (pre inflation numbers, pre-tax), which is 91th percentile California household income, and those are “jackpot” years for that person. However, they ended up paying two years pre-tax salaries (3 years post tax) in income tax if they buy a house, and 6 years post-tax salary if they build. Of course, the above is nuanced, so most people are all like “yeah, screw the rich” without realizing these taxes disproportionately hit the middle class.

jncfhnb 2y ago
I can’t follow this at all
- hedora 2y ago
  That’s why these taxes and gotcha fees are so popular with voters. California specifically targets people trying to build houses, which is one reason we have a housing crisis. It’s “only” another 4%, but if the millionaire tax ends up increasing someone’s effective tax rate from 76% to 80%, then it cuts post-tax income by almost 20% and it hits people whose average incomes are middle class. I have no idea if things are like this in Massachusetts.
  - jncfhnb 2y ago

KevinMS 2y ago

A windfall could represent decades of unpaid work.

jncfhnb 2y ago
Sounds like a really bad strategy then