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Two random thoughts from visiting vietnam and talking with people * in large parts of the country, there is just sun at least half of the year, yet solar power

Two random thoughts from visiting vietnam and talking with people * in large parts of the country, there is just sun at least half of the year, yet solar power is basically non-existent, basically all (edit: not all, but most) is coal. if renewables are so great, why are there no solar panels anywhere, in a country that is all sun? I saw some wind turbines in the central mountains at least * a lot of electricity is used on ACs, every house has at least one AC - how did people live before ACs were invented? can't imagine

alephnerd 2y ago
> why are there no solar panels anywhere Land procurement is annoying in VN, and most of the large scale infra is basically built by private players because local government is not the most capable. Also, it is mostly mountainous > how did people live before ACs were invented Start the day very early, take a siesta, and living in traditional houses to minimize the sun while also getting plenty of airflow. Edit: Listen to leduyquang753. His answer is much deeper and accurate than my broad strokes one.
makeitdouble 2y ago
> how did people live before ACs were invented? can't imagine There's the part where people were more resistant to heat one way or another (either they were more used to it, or they made adjustments and had better coping mechanisms, or both). The other part is the gradual change in climate and environement where it might have gotten way worse than before. For instance having houses with bigger windows/worse insulation, more pollution pushing people to close their windows, more asphalt/less heat dissipation, more humidity and sheer temperatures raising.
- planede 2y ago
  I speculate, but there might also be a part where simply more people suffered from heat strokes in the past when extreme temperatures occurred. So part of the answer of "how did people live before ACs were invented?" is that some didn't.
  - refurb 2y ago
    My observation is that Vietnamese people know about the risk of heat stroke and how to avoid it. You won’t see people walking around outside during the hottest hours (9am to 5pm). People are in the shade, avoid physical activity. There are some manual laborers working outside at those hours, but they are covered from head to toe to protect against the sun and take frequent breaks in the shade. But heat tolerance is real. Many people live without AC, and even those with it often won’t use it except for the hottest few days of the year. It will be 35C with 50% humidity (41C heat index) and they aren’t sweating.
    - planede 2y ago
      I don't doubt that general heat tolerance isn't real for the healthy part of the population. However the hottest days could hit elderly and unhealthy people especially hard (or even the healthy, if it's especially hot). > Many people live without AC, and even those with it often won’t use it except for the hottest few days of the year. That can still make a lot of difference.
leduyquang753 2y ago
There used to be a solar program in Vietnam, which made everyone jump onto the bandwagon. Lack of infrastructure planning, however, meant all of that solar energy could overpower the grid, and so the program has been stopped. To date, one can install their own solar system, but the electricity would be bought by the government at a price of zero, and they cannot sell it to anyone else.
flanked-evergl 2y ago
Vietnam's problems are not technical, the lack of energy is a symptom of social and political problems, and can be solved easily once the cause has been addressed.
exitb 2y ago
> if renewables are so great, why are there no solar panels anywhere, in a country that is all sun? Western prices for kWh are sever times higher than in Vietnam. What might be a great deal in USA or Germany, might not be so great in other countries.
inglor_cz 2y ago
"how did people live before ACs were invented? can't imagine" You can tell from the fact that Florida was almost empty, just half a million people in 1900. It didn't grow too much until about 1950 (2.8 million), when the population started to soar - through immigration, not by having a wild birthrate. Nowadays, 23 million, and more are coming every day, even though the place is notorious for its hurricanes. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/states/florida/population https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/states/florida/po... Ubiquitous AC that made southern states more attractive is one of the reasons why the Northeast no longer dominates the US economy and politics. And worldwide, places like Singapore, Bangalore and Tel Aviv could hardly dream of becoming hi-tech metropolises before AC.
kalleboo 2y ago
> how did people live before ACs were invented? can't imagine They lived simpler lives with less mental work that required concentration. Lee Kuan Yew, the man credited with transforming Singapore into a modern, developed country, is quoted as saying: "Air conditioning was a most important invention for us, perhaps one of the signal inventions of history. It changed the nature of civilization by making development possible in the tropics. Without air conditioning you can work only in the cool early-morning hours or at dusk. The first thing I did upon becoming prime minister was to install air conditioners in buildings where the civil service worked. This was key to public efficiency."
ZeroGravitas 2y ago
Vietnam isn't doing too badly: > Viet Nam leads Southeast Asia in share of low-carbon generation (42%), primarily from hydro (29%). From 2015 to 2023, solar and wind grew tenfold to 13% of electricity generation, on a par with the global average and exceeding peers like Thailand (4.7%) and the Philippines (3.2%). Stats from Ember climate report.

alephnerd 2y ago

> why are there no solar panels anywhere Land procurement is annoying in VN, and most of the large scale infra is basically built by private players because local government is not the most capable. Also, it is mostly mountainous > how did people live before ACs were invented Start the day very early, take a siesta, and living in traditional houses to minimize the sun while also getting plenty of airflow. Edit: Listen to leduyquang753. His answer is much deeper and accurate than my broad strokes one.

makeitdouble 2y ago

> how did people live before ACs were invented? can't imagine There's the part where people were more resistant to heat one way or another (either they were more used to it, or they made adjustments and had better coping mechanisms, or both). The other part is the gradual change in climate and environement where it might have gotten way worse than before. For instance having houses with bigger windows/worse insulation, more pollution pushing people to close their windows, more asphalt/less heat dissipation, more humidity and sheer temperatures raising.

planede 2y ago
I speculate, but there might also be a part where simply more people suffered from heat strokes in the past when extreme temperatures occurred. So part of the answer of "how did people live before ACs were invented?" is that some didn't.
- refurb 2y ago
  My observation is that Vietnamese people know about the risk of heat stroke and how to avoid it. You won’t see people walking around outside during the hottest hours (9am to 5pm). People are in the shade, avoid physical activity. There are some manual laborers working outside at those hours, but they are covered from head to toe to protect against the sun and take frequent breaks in the shade. But heat tolerance is real. Many people live without AC, and even those with it often won’t use it except for the hottest few days of the year. It will be 35C with 50% humidity (41C heat index) and they aren’t sweating.
  - planede 2y ago
    I don't doubt that general heat tolerance isn't real for the healthy part of the population. However the hottest days could hit elderly and unhealthy people especially hard (or even the healthy, if it's especially hot). > Many people live without AC, and even those with it often won’t use it except for the hottest few days of the year. That can still make a lot of difference.

leduyquang753 2y ago

There used to be a solar program in Vietnam, which made everyone jump onto the bandwagon. Lack of infrastructure planning, however, meant all of that solar energy could overpower the grid, and so the program has been stopped. To date, one can install their own solar system, but the electricity would be bought by the government at a price of zero, and they cannot sell it to anyone else.

flanked-evergl 2y ago

Vietnam's problems are not technical, the lack of energy is a symptom of social and political problems, and can be solved easily once the cause has been addressed.

exitb 2y ago

> if renewables are so great, why are there no solar panels anywhere, in a country that is all sun? Western prices for kWh are sever times higher than in Vietnam. What might be a great deal in USA or Germany, might not be so great in other countries.

inglor_cz 2y ago

"how did people live before ACs were invented? can't imagine" You can tell from the fact that Florida was almost empty, just half a million people in 1900. It didn't grow too much until about 1950 (2.8 million), when the population started to soar - through immigration, not by having a wild birthrate. Nowadays, 23 million, and more are coming every day, even though the place is notorious for its hurricanes. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/states/florida/population https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/states/florida/po... Ubiquitous AC that made southern states more attractive is one of the reasons why the Northeast no longer dominates the US economy and politics. And worldwide, places like Singapore, Bangalore and Tel Aviv could hardly dream of becoming hi-tech metropolises before AC.

kalleboo 2y ago

> how did people live before ACs were invented? can't imagine They lived simpler lives with less mental work that required concentration. Lee Kuan Yew, the man credited with transforming Singapore into a modern, developed country, is quoted as saying: "Air conditioning was a most important invention for us, perhaps one of the signal inventions of history. It changed the nature of civilization by making development possible in the tropics. Without air conditioning you can work only in the cool early-morning hours or at dusk. The first thing I did upon becoming prime minister was to install air conditioners in buildings where the civil service worked. This was key to public efficiency."

ZeroGravitas 2y ago

Vietnam isn't doing too badly: > Viet Nam leads Southeast Asia in share of low-carbon generation (42%), primarily from hydro (29%). From 2015 to 2023, solar and wind grew tenfold to 13% of electricity generation, on a par with the global average and exceeding peers like Thailand (4.7%) and the Philippines (3.2%). Stats from Ember climate report.