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I'm in the same boat. I've been chasing my tail for the last 6 years, just trying to keep my head above water financially. I'm a computer hardware engineer so t

I'm in the same boat. I've been chasing my tail for the last 6 years, just trying to keep my head above water financially. I'm a computer hardware engineer so the pickings are slim to none outside of the military-industrial complex, which pays shit outside of sales and executive management. Ended up at one of the big US semiconductor companies where I got paid 1/3rd of what my peers in the US earn, with similar expenditures. A starting salary of £26k... Barely broke £34k, plus a couple of grand in stock each year during my time there, while my US colleagues doing the same job get paid $120k+. That's with a good master's degree from Bristol, which is relatively prestigious. I'm sure if I moved to London and focused on software engineering I could make more, but that shouldn't be the only route to wealth in this country. I've spent so long trying to build out a minimum viable product in my spare time, so I can make my start-up dream a reality, but going through integration hell needs to take up all of your time, every day, for a long time, to get through the hurdles in any meaningful time frame. Every time I go back to it, I feel like I'm back at square one. 6 years of saving and I have zero runway to take this full-time to give it the time it needs. What's embarrassing is that I discussed this with my colleagues, and they didn't quite fathom how fucked it is for young engineers in this country until I had the conversation with them. I was getting the same salary now as my mentor did when he was my age; in the early '90s. Wages haven't just stagnated. When adjusted for inflation, they shrank massively. That's not even considering the £60k of student loan debt I get hammered by every month.

robertlagrant 2y ago
I honestly think if you asked the average Brit on the street what an engineer was, they'd say "it's someone who MOTs your car".
- Aromasin 2y ago
  When I say I'm an electrical engineer, people often think I make a shit load of cash and barely work. Then I need to clarify I'm not an electrician.
- bossyTeacher 2y ago
  That's because in most if not all anglesaxon countries, engineering is not legally protected unlike doctors or lawyers which further affects the engineering profession and mixes it with the role of technician. People use engineer and technician interchangeably even when the gap of skill and knowledge between both is huge
dan-robertson 2y ago
Is a ‘computer hardware engineer’ different from a ‘hardware engineer’? I think of a ‘hardware engineer’ as someone who works on the development of ICs (or things on FPGAs). I would guess that people in such a role are paid a lot less than software engineers (at comparably sized companies) in the US, and a bit less in the UK (though maybe with more variance). But the numbers you give are lower than I would expect for eg ‘hardware engineer working at Arm/Qualcomm’. There’s also hardware engineering in finance, which can pay well, but not a lot of it.
- Aromasin 2y ago
  I said computer to specify on-chip design, not hardware as in PCB/electronics work. I worked initially on CPU integration for industrial computers, which was that lower figure. I pivoted to FPGA design a couple of years ago and make a bit more now, but it's still pittance compared to my colleagues in other countries. There's a bit more money to be made up in Cambridge with Arm and Qualcomm as you mentioned, but my take home would be less when adjusted for local housing costs. As for HFT, its an end goal if only to escape the cycle of poverty, but not something I want to do out of passion for the craft.
  - dan-robertson 2y ago
    Yeah, Cambridge certainly can feel like it’s in a weird place where salaries are high by UK standards (at least outside London) but housing is also quite expensive. They’re planning/building a lot more housing there so that may change. The situation is something that’s fine for young people who don’t need much housing (especially if they want to share with friends) but for people with families who need more housing can have a harder time. I think it can still be worth it depending on one’s circumstances, though I haven’t attempted any calculation (intuition here is roughly (a) that a smaller % of a bigger number can be bigger than a larger % of a smaller number, and (b) similar other examples). I wonder how pay and available roles compare at Arm’s office in Sheffield.
K0balt 2y ago
I have a question. What if there was a place that you and a few colleagues could go where you could have your living space and office space provided, basic food served, and basic amenities. Such a place would probably be somewhat isolated and probably not in your own county. If such a place existed that catered to founders in exchange for minimal equity, is that something that would interest you, theoretically?
- bossyTeacher 2y ago
  Sounds like the house from the Silicon Valley show
- K0balt 2y ago
  Huh, I’m guessing from the downvote that the answer is no. That’s kind of what I thought. Risk is often a stand -in for comfort. In general, I find that teams that are willing to be uncomfortable will come through. Ones that aren’t will fall apart. I think this is because at some point, the level of commitment that is typically required to thrust a project above the noise floor implies a significant level of discomfort and sacrifice. A great idea and a great team are not going to make it without either a) being logistically able to do what most projects are unable to do (backing) or 2) being willing to do what most people are unwilling to do (chutzpah). It’s very rare that an idea or product is so great that it will succeed on its own merits alone. For better or for worse, many cultures foster a sense of risk aversion and conservative attitudes about discomfort. It’s hard to assemble a team that will go the distance in these cultures without strong funding out of the gate. I’m not sure that’s a bad thing, but it does seem to stifle entrepreneurial adventurism.
  - Aromasin 2y ago
    I wasn't the one to downvote you for reference, but to be clear, moving out and abandoning my partner and country so I can put together a half-baked MVP and give away equity for that hard work isn't what I, nor anyone else on this forum I suspect, would consider a good trade. I assume others are downvoting you because your comment sounds like you're running a scam operation. If you want to conflate running away from responsibilities and joining a frat house as something that helps entrepreneurs, then you do. I would suggest looking at actual start-up incubators' work (Entrepreneur First and the like). Paying salaries and covering start-up costs, not just providing basic living expenses. What you're describing might as well be indentured servitude.

robertlagrant 2y ago

I honestly think if you asked the average Brit on the street what an engineer was, they'd say "it's someone who MOTs your car".

Aromasin 2y ago
When I say I'm an electrical engineer, people often think I make a shit load of cash and barely work. Then I need to clarify I'm not an electrician.
bossyTeacher 2y ago
That's because in most if not all anglesaxon countries, engineering is not legally protected unlike doctors or lawyers which further affects the engineering profession and mixes it with the role of technician. People use engineer and technician interchangeably even when the gap of skill and knowledge between both is huge

dan-robertson 2y ago

Is a ‘computer hardware engineer’ different from a ‘hardware engineer’? I think of a ‘hardware engineer’ as someone who works on the development of ICs (or things on FPGAs). I would guess that people in such a role are paid a lot less than software engineers (at comparably sized companies) in the US, and a bit less in the UK (though maybe with more variance). But the numbers you give are lower than I would expect for eg ‘hardware engineer working at Arm/Qualcomm’. There’s also hardware engineering in finance, which can pay well, but not a lot of it.

Aromasin 2y ago
I said computer to specify on-chip design, not hardware as in PCB/electronics work. I worked initially on CPU integration for industrial computers, which was that lower figure. I pivoted to FPGA design a couple of years ago and make a bit more now, but it's still pittance compared to my colleagues in other countries. There's a bit more money to be made up in Cambridge with Arm and Qualcomm as you mentioned, but my take home would be less when adjusted for local housing costs. As for HFT, its an end goal if only to escape the cycle of poverty, but not something I want to do out of passion for the craft.
- dan-robertson 2y ago
  Yeah, Cambridge certainly can feel like it’s in a weird place where salaries are high by UK standards (at least outside London) but housing is also quite expensive. They’re planning/building a lot more housing there so that may change. The situation is something that’s fine for young people who don’t need much housing (especially if they want to share with friends) but for people with families who need more housing can have a harder time. I think it can still be worth it depending on one’s circumstances, though I haven’t attempted any calculation (intuition here is roughly (a) that a smaller % of a bigger number can be bigger than a larger % of a smaller number, and (b) similar other examples). I wonder how pay and available roles compare at Arm’s office in Sheffield.

K0balt 2y ago

I have a question. What if there was a place that you and a few colleagues could go where you could have your living space and office space provided, basic food served, and basic amenities. Such a place would probably be somewhat isolated and probably not in your own county. If such a place existed that catered to founders in exchange for minimal equity, is that something that would interest you, theoretically?

bossyTeacher 2y ago
Sounds like the house from the Silicon Valley show
K0balt 2y ago
Huh, I’m guessing from the downvote that the answer is no. That’s kind of what I thought. Risk is often a stand -in for comfort. In general, I find that teams that are willing to be uncomfortable will come through. Ones that aren’t will fall apart. I think this is because at some point, the level of commitment that is typically required to thrust a project above the noise floor implies a significant level of discomfort and sacrifice. A great idea and a great team are not going to make it without either a) being logistically able to do what most projects are unable to do (backing) or 2) being willing to do what most people are unwilling to do (chutzpah). It’s very rare that an idea or product is so great that it will succeed on its own merits alone. For better or for worse, many cultures foster a sense of risk aversion and conservative attitudes about discomfort. It’s hard to assemble a team that will go the distance in these cultures without strong funding out of the gate. I’m not sure that’s a bad thing, but it does seem to stifle entrepreneurial adventurism.
- Aromasin 2y ago
  I wasn't the one to downvote you for reference, but to be clear, moving out and abandoning my partner and country so I can put together a half-baked MVP and give away equity for that hard work isn't what I, nor anyone else on this forum I suspect, would consider a good trade. I assume others are downvoting you because your comment sounds like you're running a scam operation. If you want to conflate running away from responsibilities and joining a frat house as something that helps entrepreneurs, then you do. I would suggest looking at actual start-up incubators' work (Entrepreneur First and the like). Paying salaries and covering start-up costs, not just providing basic living expenses. What you're describing might as well be indentured servitude.