4 ms·

Do they sleep/wake properly though? If not, it's going to be absolutely useless for me.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
Can’t believe it’s 2024 and Microsoft has not sorted this out yet. I switched to MacBooks 15 years ago because I liked being able to close the lid at any moment and stuff it into my laptop and go. Got burned one too many times trying to sleep/hibernate HP business laptops by closing the lid and they stayed on and got hot. Not once has that happened with a MacBook.
- perryizgr8 2y ago
  Exactly. I wonder if they actually use their own laptops for work. I had one HP laptop literally melt its own plastic after being left inside my bag for a night. Made it a point to always keep it on a desk overnight.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- albertopv 2y ago
  It's Windows Modern Standby, one of the stupidest choice Microsoft ever made. Basically the laptop stays on to connect to the Internet to still receive mail and notifications.
  - Gigachad 2y ago
    MacBooks also have this or something like it. You can ping the MacBook with find my even if it’s been asleep for ages.
  - selcuka 2y ago
    MacOS does that too, it's called Power Nap. You can turn it off, though.
- xcv123 2y ago
  Same thing happened with my Dell Precision laptop. Fixed it by wiping the hard drive and installing Linux.
  - mananaysiempre 2y ago
    Notably on recent CPU generations the CPU vendors yanked S3 support completely, so you have to rely on your Linux installation being able to adequately manage power in S0ix. While it won’t be hostile to you like a Windows one, I’m yet to see this work as well as S3 with regard to battery life.
    - binkHN 2y ago
      Within the last month, a BIOS update was released for my ThinkPad that finally allows this to work reliably under Linux.
- Nextgrid 2y ago
  It's not that they haven't sorted this out, it's that they intentionally broke it. S3 sleep was a solved problem all the way back in the Windows XP days. The problem is that S3 sleep means the machine is actually sleeping, and short of timers being set ahead of time or explicit wake events by PCI devices, the machine is unable to think which means it can't do important things like download ads^W suggestions or similar. It's technically possible to do Wake-on-WLAN/WWAN but would require moving a ton of logic to the WAN card (it would need an entire network and app stack in order to maintain high-level TLS/etc connections with the various sync servers autonomously and wake the host when something new comes in) and in practice nobody bothered to do it because it's just not actually solving any problem the users care about - even when useful data is being fetched, it turns out that in practice nobody minds waiting 5 seconds for their Outlook to refresh. Microsoft's "solution" however was to simply remove S3 sleep, so now the machine is incapable of it and is constantly in S0 (powered on state) and it's up to the OS to ensure nothing resource-hungry is running so that the CPU can actually enter its low-power states. This might be doable on an OS built from scratch (it's after all what all smartphones do successfully), but not with Windows if they want to preserve backwards compatibility with the PC we know and love, so in the end you get machines that have the risk of overheating & draining their whole battery while "sleeping"... but hey at least when it works your ads are up to date, progress I guess.
  - mmaniac 2y ago
    While it's deeply frustrating that S3 standby is increasingly unsupported on laptops with new firmwares, I find that hibernate works perfectly instead. It's been my preferred option whenever I stop using my PC for a short while and blazing fast modern SSDs have made it more useful than ever. It's bewildering that Microsoft have made hibernate hidden by default. Yet at the same time, "fast startup" is enabled by default! Something as simple as power states has deliberately been completely broken.
makeitdouble 2y ago
We're talking about the Surface line here, so yes, in my experience power management is flawless. It gets everything we'd expect from a vertically integrated product. You still need to deal with windows' paradigms, but also get a real linux as a bonus.

Can’t believe it’s 2024 and Microsoft has not sorted this out yet. I switched to MacBooks 15 years ago because I liked being able to close the lid at any moment and stuff it into my laptop and go. Got burned one too many times trying to sleep/hibernate HP business laptops by closing the lid and they stayed on and got hot. Not once has that happened with a MacBook.

perryizgr8 2y ago
Exactly. I wonder if they actually use their own laptops for work. I had one HP laptop literally melt its own plastic after being left inside my bag for a night. Made it a point to always keep it on a desk overnight.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
albertopv 2y ago
It's Windows Modern Standby, one of the stupidest choice Microsoft ever made. Basically the laptop stays on to connect to the Internet to still receive mail and notifications.
- Gigachad 2y ago
  MacBooks also have this or something like it. You can ping the MacBook with find my even if it’s been asleep for ages.
- selcuka 2y ago
  MacOS does that too, it's called Power Nap. You can turn it off, though.
xcv123 2y ago
Same thing happened with my Dell Precision laptop. Fixed it by wiping the hard drive and installing Linux.
- mananaysiempre 2y ago
  Notably on recent CPU generations the CPU vendors yanked S3 support completely, so you have to rely on your Linux installation being able to adequately manage power in S0ix. While it won’t be hostile to you like a Windows one, I’m yet to see this work as well as S3 with regard to battery life.
  - binkHN 2y ago
    Within the last month, a BIOS update was released for my ThinkPad that finally allows this to work reliably under Linux.
Nextgrid 2y ago
It's not that they haven't sorted this out, it's that they intentionally broke it. S3 sleep was a solved problem all the way back in the Windows XP days. The problem is that S3 sleep means the machine is actually sleeping, and short of timers being set ahead of time or explicit wake events by PCI devices, the machine is unable to think which means it can't do important things like download ads^W suggestions or similar. It's technically possible to do Wake-on-WLAN/WWAN but would require moving a ton of logic to the WAN card (it would need an entire network and app stack in order to maintain high-level TLS/etc connections with the various sync servers autonomously and wake the host when something new comes in) and in practice nobody bothered to do it because it's just not actually solving any problem the users care about - even when useful data is being fetched, it turns out that in practice nobody minds waiting 5 seconds for their Outlook to refresh. Microsoft's "solution" however was to simply remove S3 sleep, so now the machine is incapable of it and is constantly in S0 (powered on state) and it's up to the OS to ensure nothing resource-hungry is running so that the CPU can actually enter its low-power states. This might be doable on an OS built from scratch (it's after all what all smartphones do successfully), but not with Windows if they want to preserve backwards compatibility with the PC we know and love, so in the end you get machines that have the risk of overheating & draining their whole battery while "sleeping"... but hey at least when it works your ads are up to date, progress I guess.
- mmaniac 2y ago
  While it's deeply frustrating that S3 standby is increasingly unsupported on laptops with new firmwares, I find that hibernate works perfectly instead. It's been my preferred option whenever I stop using my PC for a short while and blazing fast modern SSDs have made it more useful than ever. It's bewildering that Microsoft have made hibernate hidden by default. Yet at the same time, "fast startup" is enabled by default! Something as simple as power states has deliberately been completely broken.

makeitdouble 2y ago

We're talking about the Surface line here, so yes, in my experience power management is flawless. It gets everything we'd expect from a vertically integrated product. You still need to deal with windows' paradigms, but also get a real linux as a bonus.