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As an aside, an argument in favor of mass transit vs electric cars, is that EVs do nothing to reduce particulate matter pollution from tires and breaks.
by BenFranklin100 2y ago
As an aside, an argument in favor of mass transit vs electric cars, is that EVs do nothing to reduce particulate matter pollution from tires and breaks.
- DarmokJalad1701 2y ago> is that EVs do nothing to reduce particulate matter pollution from tires and breaks Except for not using brakes for the most part. EV brakes typically last for the life of the car. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_braking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_braking
- BenFranklin100 2y agoAnd your tires?
- InitialLastName 2y agoYour quote: > EVs do nothing to reduce particulate matter pollution from tires and breaks. "Substantially reduce particulate matter pollution from brakes" sounds like doing "something", not "nothing", to me.
- BenFranklin100 2y agoWhich is why I used a logical conjunction. https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/4a4dc6ca-en/1/3/3/index.html?itemId=/content/publication/4a4dc6ca-en&_csp_=681d016aff567eeb4efd802d746cdcc4&itemIGO=oecd&itemContentType=book https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/4a4dc6ca-en/1/3/3/index....
- coldtea 2y agoIf one thought EVs did something help with one of the two, they'd have omitted it from the list of things "EVs do nothing" to help with. Something that helps with X cannot be said to do nothing to help with "the problem of X and Y". If they reduce it for tires, then they do reduce the problem of "particulate matter pollution from tires and breaks" - proportionally to how much the latter contributes to said problem.
- BenFranklin100 2y agoUm, no. https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/24-241-logic-i-fall-2009/ https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/24-241-logic-i-fall-2009/ Good luck.
- coldtea 2y agoAnd the link to a logic course somehow proves you right for saying "EVs do nothing to reduce particulate matter pollution from tires and breaks"? Dude, you just pulled the weird-ass argument about "that's why I used a conjuction" in a hail Mary attempt to pretend you already knew about them reducing break pollution. As if any person who actually knew EVs reduce particulate matter pollution from breaks would ever say: "EVs do nothing to reduce particulate matter pollution from tires and breaks" - implying they meant "they don't reduce BOTH" all along.
- BenFranklin100 2y agoSeriously, sign up for the course. You would benefit.
- Qwertious 2y agoEVs don't do that, regen braking does that. Regen braking can be fitted to hybrid or ICE cars.
- abakker 2y agoWell, you were the one who grouped them. The reality is that EVs wear tires equivalently fast to other similar weight vehicles and wear brakes very very slowly. And reduce carbon emissions. And noise.
- BenFranklin100 2y agoI grouped them together,because overall EVs appear to have marginally less non-exhaust particulate matter pollution than gas vehicles: https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/4a4dc6ca-en/1/3/3/index.html?itemId=/content/publication/4a4dc6ca-en&_csp_=681d016aff567eeb4efd802d746cdcc4&itemIGO=oecd&itemContentType=book https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/4a4dc6ca-en/1/3/3/index.... In other words, the road to a mostly pollution free transit future will be laid with tracks rather than asphalt.
- bdamm 2y agoIt will be laid by first understanding reality, which includes the enormous road network we have today and the social motivations to expand it. Just bleating about how great it would be if everyone used transit isn’t going to change a damn thing. EVs are a solid and realistic step towards reducing our worst pollution problems. Widely available car sharing and autonomous vehicles would be a great solution to the last mile and even reducing the problem of so much space being used for parking, while improving the walkability of our cities. Look towards possibilities that can work, instead of clinging to models that can’t address the problems of today.
- BenFranklin100 2y agoDon’t be silly. EVs, ride shares, autonomous cars, etc.. are a poor transit solution within dense cities, where a significant if not overwhelming majority of car use occurs. These urban environments are ripe for cost effective, efficient mass transit solutions, such as the BRT system Mexico City recently implemented. They absolutely address the problems of today.
- 2y ago
- kjkjadksj 2y agoMaybe if you drive like a grandma and not like I see a lot of people with these 4 second 0-60 cars drive are you avoiding the brakes.
- rickydroll 2y agoThanks to regenerative braking, my brake disks rust long before they wear out. Tire particulates are an engineering problem that will be solved long before the social problem of convincing people to live close enough to make public transit practical.
- BenFranklin100 2y agoAnd your tires?
- greenavocado 2y agoI'm never going to take public transit in the United States if I can help it because there are too many unhinged psycopaths and it takes just one. When I visit Europe it's all I take day in day out. Except certain parts of Paris and the UK which have had lots of recent arrivals. But even the new arrivals are less insane than many of the characters found on US public transit.
- bragr 2y agoAs opposed to in traffic? Plenty of road raging psychos out driving cars.
- Hextinium 2y agoThe conclusion is that the US just has more psychos. But the restraint of wrecking their vehicle to accost me holds them in line. On public transit they can accost me and nothing stops them.
- verall 2y agoHere in Austin people shoot at eachother on the highway all of the time, there's no need for them to wreck their car
- greenavocado 2y ago
- InitialLastName 2y agoUnless there's a ramification of electromagnetism that I'm missing, cars that do the bulk of their braking through regeneration require their conventional brakes to absorb far less energy, reducing the particulate matter generated.
- rnewme 2y agoHowever they're much much heavier, generating more tire and brake dust.
- galangalalgol 2y agoAnd unless the mass transit is tireless, it will be even heavier. Tire wear and this microplastics go up with the square of axle weight, so individual transportation is actually better from that standpoint.
- urban_winter 2y agoBut mass transit carries more people per wheel, and the weight of the bus does not scale linearly with the carrying capacity, so it doesn't automatically follow that "individual transportation is actually better...". I doubt that 50 EVs carrying one person each generate less tyre wear than one bus carrying 50 people.
- XorNot 2y agoRoad damage is a function of the power of 4[1] generally. A BYD bus weighs 18 tons and carries 32 people including the driver. [2] A BYD Atto 3[3] carries upto 5 people and weighs 1.8 tons unloaded. The proportional road wear function of the BYD Atto would be about 10 (1.8^4). For the bus it would be (18^4) 104,976. So the bus is 10,000 times more wear then the car. Per passenger it's 3000 wear units for the bus versus ~10 for the car. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_K_series https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_K_series [3] https://ev-database.org/car/1782/BYD-ATTO-3 https://ev-database.org/car/1782/BYD-ATTO-3
- infogulch 2y agoRegenerative braking means that if you drive them right EVs can have factory brake pads at 100k+ miles that look new. https://x.com/niccruzpatane/status/1785043593427640326 https://x.com/niccruzpatane/status/1785043593427640326
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoThis also allows for use of drum brakes, which have rare issues of overheating when used alone but are fine with regen doing most of the work. Those contain the abrasion materials within themselves. Some EVs already use them but to become common it'll probably require new regulations like the EU is planning to overcome the "ugh factor" because they used to be the cheap, low end options.