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LOL. You can't picture a scenario where early man plucks a wild apple? Or that tree naturally replicate themselves? The fact you ask about how they drove the

by refurb 2y ago

LOL. You can't picture a scenario where early man plucks a wild apple? Or that tree naturally replicate themselves? The fact you ask about how they drove there made me chuckle.

danaris 2y ago
You said "If *I* harvest a wild apple". You are, presumably, not an "early man", and whether or not you own a car, you certainly have access to the technology. While it is definitely an assumption, I'm guessing you are American. If so, then any apples you would be able to pluck would have been brought there by deliberate human seeding at some point in the past. Also, like with a great many food crops, if an early man were to pluck a truly wild apple, it would be rather different than what we would buy at an orchard today. Human cultivation over many millennia has massively changed most of the plants we eat—whether that be the leaves, the fruits, the seeds, or the roots. Your notion of a perfect state of pure wildness supporting humans who have never had any support from any other human is nothing but a fantasy.
- refurb 2y ago
  > Your notion of a perfect state of pure wildness supporting humans who have never had any support from any other human is nothing but a fantasy. You really struggle with hypotheticals don't you? Either that or you're dancing around in order to avoid admitting that someone could produce something purely out of their own labor. It's clearly a false statement and you could use a number of other example - creating something basic out of wood, growing a wild edible food, using naturally occuring pigments to create art.
  - danaris 2y ago
    In a completely hypothetical situation, where a human came into being fully formed with complete knowledge of how to do a thing and all the resources to do it spawned out of the void around them, then yes, they could produce something purely out of their own labor. In any real situation, the very existence of that human at any age past infancy is the product of society. Even back to the first proto-hominids. So is the knowledge to be able to produce the thing. In any modern situation, the resources and tools that human has at their disposal are also products of society (yes, even "natural" products like wood—at least in America, there are nearly no old-growth forests left, and literally every natural resource has to either be cultivated or protected in some way, or extracted with nontrivial tools). Again: you are only able to come to your libertarian-fantasy conclusion by narrowing your focus to the single act, rather than being willing to acknowledge all the supports that make it possible.

by refurb 2y ago

LOL. You can't picture a scenario where early man plucks a wild apple? Or that tree naturally replicate themselves? The fact you ask about how they drove there made me chuckle.

danaris 2y ago

You said "If *I* harvest a wild apple". You are, presumably, not an "early man", and whether or not you own a car, you certainly have access to the technology. While it is definitely an assumption, I'm guessing you are American. If so, then any apples you would be able to pluck would have been brought there by deliberate human seeding at some point in the past. Also, like with a great many food crops, if an early man were to pluck a truly wild apple, it would be rather different than what we would buy at an orchard today. Human cultivation over many millennia has massively changed most of the plants we eat—whether that be the leaves, the fruits, the seeds, or the roots. Your notion of a perfect state of pure wildness supporting humans who have never had any support from any other human is nothing but a fantasy.

refurb 2y ago
> Your notion of a perfect state of pure wildness supporting humans who have never had any support from any other human is nothing but a fantasy. You really struggle with hypotheticals don't you? Either that or you're dancing around in order to avoid admitting that someone could produce something purely out of their own labor. It's clearly a false statement and you could use a number of other example - creating something basic out of wood, growing a wild edible food, using naturally occuring pigments to create art.
- danaris 2y ago
  In a completely hypothetical situation, where a human came into being fully formed with complete knowledge of how to do a thing and all the resources to do it spawned out of the void around them, then yes, they could produce something purely out of their own labor. In any real situation, the very existence of that human at any age past infancy is the product of society. Even back to the first proto-hominids. So is the knowledge to be able to produce the thing. In any modern situation, the resources and tools that human has at their disposal are also products of society (yes, even "natural" products like wood—at least in America, there are nearly no old-growth forests left, and literally every natural resource has to either be cultivated or protected in some way, or extracted with nontrivial tools). Again: you are only able to come to your libertarian-fantasy conclusion by narrowing your focus to the single act, rather than being willing to acknowledge all the supports that make it possible.