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To quote from a post I made in a previous thread: I'm increasingly of the opinion that the winning move is not to play. The educational Red Queen Race that S.K

To quote from a post I made in a previous thread: I'm increasingly of the opinion that the winning move is not to play. The educational Red Queen Race that S.Korea and China have been famous for -- with childhoods utterly dominated by schooling and "extracurriculars" -- is now also an American thing. It's hard on kids, hard on parents, and the real educational benefit is less than zero. (In that kids would genuinely be better off without excess schooling and with more self-directed free time.) The Ivy League path is simultaneously ultra-high-stress and ultra-conventional. It's no longer a golden ticket to the good life. Unless you like grinding and competition, and want a career which features both, I feel it's usually just the opposite. So it makes sense to "say no," as those in OP do. Truly, kids aren't getting a "head-start" these days -- they're engaging in ever more complex and Byzantine make-work. And, emphatically, I do not believe it has any impact on their intellectual achievements later in life.

elevatedastalt 2y ago
It's a coordination problem (prisoners dilemma). It's a winning move only if no one plays (aka everyone hits cooperates). If you are the only one who defects you will be worse off.
- A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
  Maybe. That is, if and only if you want a conventional life path or need a particular University-conferred credential for your choice of profession. Otherwise, there's no pain associated with defecting. If anything, there's far less pain associated with defecting than with the alternative, weighted down with drudgery as it is.
  - elevatedastalt 2y ago
    You are free to live in the woods isolated from society. So are my kids, if that is a decision they make of their own volition once they are old enough to make a meaningful decision. Until then it's my job to make sure they are equipped for life to the most of their capability.
    - A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
      > Until then it's my job to make sure they are equipped for life to the most of their capability. Have you ever looked at Ivy League university ads from 100 years ago? They're often about giving your son a well-rounded education in the liberal arts so that he's equipped to take over the family business. So there's an idea. Instead of forcing your kids to grind, you could leave them stakes in a business. Either yours, or one you build together with them. That's just one idea. There are many unconventional life paths that pay out better than the grind, and better equip your children. You just need to get a bit creative.
liveoneggs 2y ago
There is no real way to identify if your kid is extra smart + motivated + lucky enough to "make it" without advantages, of which an ivy education is a big one. The numbers say push them to the max because the best opportunities are given, in the highest numbers, to the kids with the most boxes checked. America is still where you can come from less than nothing and make it, but your parents don't determine that -- You do.

elevatedastalt 2y ago

It's a coordination problem (prisoners dilemma). It's a winning move only if no one plays (aka everyone hits cooperates). If you are the only one who defects you will be worse off.

A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
Maybe. That is, if and only if you want a conventional life path or need a particular University-conferred credential for your choice of profession. Otherwise, there's no pain associated with defecting. If anything, there's far less pain associated with defecting than with the alternative, weighted down with drudgery as it is.
- elevatedastalt 2y ago
  You are free to live in the woods isolated from society. So are my kids, if that is a decision they make of their own volition once they are old enough to make a meaningful decision. Until then it's my job to make sure they are equipped for life to the most of their capability.
  - A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
    > Until then it's my job to make sure they are equipped for life to the most of their capability. Have you ever looked at Ivy League university ads from 100 years ago? They're often about giving your son a well-rounded education in the liberal arts so that he's equipped to take over the family business. So there's an idea. Instead of forcing your kids to grind, you could leave them stakes in a business. Either yours, or one you build together with them. That's just one idea. There are many unconventional life paths that pay out better than the grind, and better equip your children. You just need to get a bit creative.

liveoneggs 2y ago

There is no real way to identify if your kid is extra smart + motivated + lucky enough to "make it" without advantages, of which an ivy education is a big one. The numbers say push them to the max because the best opportunities are given, in the highest numbers, to the kids with the most boxes checked. America is still where you can come from less than nothing and make it, but your parents don't determine that -- You do.