6 ms·

> Near half of the US population would throw an absolute fit. But a large chunk of the population is already throwing a fit, and given the spread in views amon

> Near half of the US population would throw an absolute fit. But a large chunk of the population is already throwing a fit, and given the spread in views among different age groups, that's a growing chunk of the population.

tptacek 2y ago
If by this you mean they're throwing a fit over Israel and Gaza, no, I don't think polling bears this out at all. Even within the context of the schools themselves, protesters are small minorities of the students and faculty. A large chunk of the media is throwing a fit, to be sure! I think the best way to sum up public opinion from what we know given polling and on-the-ground numbers is that Americans just don't much care about this. We care. But as is so often the case, caring about this issue makes us the weird ones.
lupusreal 2y ago
The situation is ripe for a new political party that isn't wed to zionism. Opposition to zionism is growing on both the left and the right, particularly among young people, but neither had a party to represent this.
- Qwertious 2y ago
  I'm hoping that the last year or so will finally deliver a replacement for American FPTP - the Republicans are split between RINOs and MAGA devouts, and the democrats are split too between the centrist and progressives too. I don't know if it'll actually happen, but this is probably the most likely path towards it, if there is one.
  - nebula8804 2y ago
    The RINOs are moving towards the welcoming arms of Democrats and the "progressives" don't have a home anywhere as they are barely even tolerated in the Democratic party.
- octopoc 2y ago
  Normally you'd think at least one of the parties would adapt to appeal to the younger generations. Unfortunately I think there is some truth to the idea that Israeli influence is very strong in D.C., so neither party has so much as offered an olive branch to the young.
- ars 2y ago
  What the heck does "Opposition to Zionism" even mean? Opposing Zionism is the same as opposing the Irish desire to have Ireland, or the Kiwi desire to have New Zealand. I suspect you don't know what Zionism is, because otherwise your message makes no sense.
  - jakelazaroff 2y ago
    It is the opposition to Israel as an ethnostate, which describes neither Ireland nor New Zealand.
    - ars 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocracy#Northern_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocracy#Northern_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_ethnostate#New_Zealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_ethnostate#New_Zealand And I'm not picking on them - tons of countries are like that, and that's fine as long as they ensure equality of all citizens, which Ireland, New Zealand, and Israel have all done.
      - racional 2y ago
        The section on NZ refers to a set of racist policies that ended in the 1980s and are now thoroughly discredited. Are you sure you want to cite it as a comparator to Israel?
        runarberg 2y ago
        Same with Norther Ireland. Parent links to policies of Northern Ireland aimed at minimizing Catholic’s political powers, including via controlling the demographics. History has shown these policies to be very wrong and very much the reason for the Troubles. Historically this region suffered from settler colonialism where Britain encourage Protestants to move into the area. If you wanted to make a comparison to anti-Zionism, then the Nationalist‘s fight for civil rights and political representation is much more apt, then Protestant hardliners wanting to keep the demographics in their favor in order for continue suppress the rights of Norther Irish Catholics. Ironically, the IRA were not afraid to use terrorism to further the nationalistic cause (similar to a certain Palestinian resistance movement), and when the British tried to defeat them militarily (including via occupation) it only made matter worse. What did work however was stopping these policies which stripped Catholics from their civil rights, and granting them a political avenue for their prospects. Turns out that if you have political means for your goals, you are less likely to use terrorism.
- datavirtue 2y ago
  No lasting and significant opposition to Zionism will ever take root. To boil it down to a jingoist set of phrases understandable by the masses would require overt antisemitism.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
    << set of phrases understandable by the masses I.. think I disagree. In a sense, Trump technically laid a foundation for that with a rather clever MAGA phrase. Regardless of what you think about him, his policy or his stance on anything, he showed that there are phrases could be utilized to tap into that section with little effort and are not as easily dismissed. Now.. those could be attacked as overly nationalistic, but that is a separate discussion. << No lasting and significant opposition to Zionism will ever take root. I think I agree despite (n)'ever' being a really long time. A year is eternity in politics and this year is already pretty crazy. I honestly can't say it is impossible.

tptacek 2y ago

If by this you mean they're throwing a fit over Israel and Gaza, no, I don't think polling bears this out at all. Even within the context of the schools themselves, protesters are small minorities of the students and faculty. A large chunk of the media is throwing a fit, to be sure! I think the best way to sum up public opinion from what we know given polling and on-the-ground numbers is that Americans just don't much care about this. We care. But as is so often the case, caring about this issue makes us the weird ones.

lupusreal 2y ago

The situation is ripe for a new political party that isn't wed to zionism. Opposition to zionism is growing on both the left and the right, particularly among young people, but neither had a party to represent this.

Qwertious 2y ago
I'm hoping that the last year or so will finally deliver a replacement for American FPTP - the Republicans are split between RINOs and MAGA devouts, and the democrats are split too between the centrist and progressives too. I don't know if it'll actually happen, but this is probably the most likely path towards it, if there is one.
- nebula8804 2y ago
  The RINOs are moving towards the welcoming arms of Democrats and the "progressives" don't have a home anywhere as they are barely even tolerated in the Democratic party.
octopoc 2y ago
Normally you'd think at least one of the parties would adapt to appeal to the younger generations. Unfortunately I think there is some truth to the idea that Israeli influence is very strong in D.C., so neither party has so much as offered an olive branch to the young.
ars 2y ago
What the heck does "Opposition to Zionism" even mean? Opposing Zionism is the same as opposing the Irish desire to have Ireland, or the Kiwi desire to have New Zealand. I suspect you don't know what Zionism is, because otherwise your message makes no sense.
- jakelazaroff 2y ago
  It is the opposition to Israel as an ethnostate, which describes neither Ireland nor New Zealand.
  - ars 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocracy#Northern_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocracy#Northern_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_ethnostate#New_Zealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_ethnostate#New_Zealand And I'm not picking on them - tons of countries are like that, and that's fine as long as they ensure equality of all citizens, which Ireland, New Zealand, and Israel have all done.
    - racional 2y ago
      The section on NZ refers to a set of racist policies that ended in the 1980s and are now thoroughly discredited. Are you sure you want to cite it as a comparator to Israel?
      - runarberg 2y ago
        Same with Norther Ireland. Parent links to policies of Northern Ireland aimed at minimizing Catholic’s political powers, including via controlling the demographics. History has shown these policies to be very wrong and very much the reason for the Troubles. Historically this region suffered from settler colonialism where Britain encourage Protestants to move into the area. If you wanted to make a comparison to anti-Zionism, then the Nationalist‘s fight for civil rights and political representation is much more apt, then Protestant hardliners wanting to keep the demographics in their favor in order for continue suppress the rights of Norther Irish Catholics. Ironically, the IRA were not afraid to use terrorism to further the nationalistic cause (similar to a certain Palestinian resistance movement), and when the British tried to defeat them militarily (including via occupation) it only made matter worse. What did work however was stopping these policies which stripped Catholics from their civil rights, and granting them a political avenue for their prospects. Turns out that if you have political means for your goals, you are less likely to use terrorism.
datavirtue 2y ago
No lasting and significant opposition to Zionism will ever take root. To boil it down to a jingoist set of phrases understandable by the masses would require overt antisemitism.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
  << set of phrases understandable by the masses I.. think I disagree. In a sense, Trump technically laid a foundation for that with a rather clever MAGA phrase. Regardless of what you think about him, his policy or his stance on anything, he showed that there are phrases could be utilized to tap into that section with little effort and are not as easily dismissed. Now.. those could be attacked as overly nationalistic, but that is a separate discussion. << No lasting and significant opposition to Zionism will ever take root. I think I agree despite (n)'ever' being a really long time. A year is eternity in politics and this year is already pretty crazy. I honestly can't say it is impossible.