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Companies will make them if they perceive there being a big enough market to warrant making the product - which there isn't. The biggest problem is everybody ha

Companies will make them if they perceive there being a big enough market to warrant making the product - which there isn't. The biggest problem is everybody has a different idea of the minimal feature set for a dumb phone. Voice and texting? Sure, sure. Those are table stakes. Hey - email would be nice too! Okay. You know, it'd be awfully convenient to have a camera so I can snap photo and send them to my friends. Okaaaaay. And so it goes. By the time you're done you'll have re-traced the feature development of the smartphone. Here's the thing about smartphones - you can make them as dumb as you want. You can determine the set of minimal features that works for you, providing everything you need while minimizing distractions. I know, I know - crazy concept!

JohnFen 2y ago
> Here's the thing about smartphones - you can make them as dumb as you want Oh, how I wish that were true, but it isn't. I can certainly decide which capabilities are presented in the UI (for the most part), but the reason I want a dumbphone is to avoid the security problems smartphones have. If the advanced functionality is there, whether or not I see it, so are the additional security problems that come with it. I want my phone to be, as much as possible, limited enough in terms of hardware (processing power, memory, etc.) so as to make it incapable of advanced functionality. Personally, I want the ability to make and receive phone calls and texts, and the ability to tether. Everything else I can do on a separate pocket device that isn't on the cell network and that I can actually have complete control of.
- tail_exchange 2y ago
  Can't you just get a plan without data, or just turn off data and wifi? If you are only using your phone for calls and sms, and don't ever turn on your network, I'm not sure what security problems you are trying to avoid. Unless you are living under a totalitarian government, this seems excessive to me, but maybe there are other things I'm missing.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    > I'm not sure what security problems you are trying to avoid. Tracking, mostly.
- dools 2y ago
  So get a Nokia 4g and when you want mobile computing take a laptop
nonrandomstring 2y ago
Modular phones is a good solution. There have been a few genuine attempts [0] - and a big win is for the environment too because modular designs are repairable. I don't much buy the "slippery slope" argument for not offering a basic voice only phone, because there is a large demand for it according to article which I take as the premise for the discussion. The reality is that one cannot make a smartphone "as dumb as you want". Well, technically I can, but I don't know many other people who have a x100 bench microscope and SMD soldering gear to rework chips. Hardware capability is the key demand here because one fundamentally cannot trust software as it is today. Also, even if disabled in the OS, many potentially insecure and power-hungry subsystems remain active. Modular phones will need to mature somewhat to meet these new needs. It's high time that physical standards for modules were solid, but in Europe we will see interoperability and environmental regulations make that a reality. Expect to see adding cameras, Bluetooth, GSM and memory be as easy as flipping in a SIM. The environment and all cellphone users will thank us for that. [0] https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/modular-phones-roundup/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/modular-phones-roundup/
paulddraper 2y ago
> Here's the thing about smartphones - you can make them as dumb as you want Will they have the battery life of a dumb phone?
- taeric 2y ago
  Probably? My phone goes over a day on a charge, fairly easily. Especially if I'm barely using it.
  - pavon 2y ago
    All the dumbphones I’ve owned last 3 days with moderate use and 5 days with light use.
    - taeric 2y ago
      Fair? Maybe? I don't remember phones ever lasting that long for me back in the day. I do somewhat miss being able to keep extra batteries, but not as much as I used to. I'm fairly confident if I turn off wifi, gps, and bluetooth on my phone, my phone would last several days on a charge easily. Things that kill my battery are almost always overly greedy bluetooth connections. Or back when I used my phone as my gps recorder for bike rides.
      - paulddraper 2y ago
        You could charge it every other day easy, no concern. You don't get a huge screen and fast processor for free.
        taeric 2y ago
        The screen certainly takes up a decent chunk, but not using the phone negates a large part of that. To the point that I'm fairly confident most of the energy drain on my phone is the radios.
Wowfunhappy 2y ago
> Here's the thing about smartphones - you can make them as dumb as you want. You can determine the set of minimal features that works for you, providing everything you need while minimizing distractions. I know, I know - crazy concept! ...actually, I can't, at least on iOS, because many of the built-in apps cannot be uninstalled: 1. Health, Find My, and Wallet. These are clearly superfluous to the basic functionality of a phone. Why can't you remove them? 2. Safari. Given how central the web is to modern life, I kind of understand why Apple doesn't let you remove this. However, if you don't think it's healthy to have a web browser in your pocket, well, tough luck. 3. Messages. This makes sense, as texting is basic cell phone functionality. However, the iOS Messages app comes with its own integrated store that can't be disabled. Wat. 4. Clock. Setting timers is arguably basic cell phone functionality—but setting my bed time clearly is not, and this is built into the app! Sure, you could just not use this stuff! But if the central idea is "I don't want a full computer in my pocket that will distract me, I just want a very basic appliance to make calls and texts and maybe a few other extras which I will select", the iPhone is not a device for you! Apple won't let you cut it down past a relatively high baseline. Screen time doesn't really solve anything as it's very easy (and psychologically tempting) to bypass. I am not familiar with the current state of Android, but I would be surprised if the situation was significantly better. Let me know if I'm wrong!
- taylodl 2y ago
  1. Disable all notifications 2. Turn off your Wi-Fi. Using Safari over LTE is not fun! 3. Remove all social media applications 4. Don't store social media passwords in your keychain (can't be tempted to use the browser to hit the sites) 5. Use a strong password generator for your social media logins so it's impossible for you to remember them. Make sure each password is unique for each site so you definitely can't remember them. You will have gone a long way to making your phone less distracting. When you need to get work done (assuming you're in an office environment), put your phone in a desk drawer. Research has shown the physical presence of the phone on your desk or in your pocket can be distracting. Hidden away in a drawer and it's not distracting. And while you can't completely remove the Health, Find My, and Wallet applications, you can certainly make them practically inaccessible. You have a lot of controls available to make your phone less distracting.

JohnFen 2y ago

> Here's the thing about smartphones - you can make them as dumb as you want Oh, how I wish that were true, but it isn't. I can certainly decide which capabilities are presented in the UI (for the most part), but the reason I want a dumbphone is to avoid the security problems smartphones have. If the advanced functionality is there, whether or not I see it, so are the additional security problems that come with it. I want my phone to be, as much as possible, limited enough in terms of hardware (processing power, memory, etc.) so as to make it incapable of advanced functionality. Personally, I want the ability to make and receive phone calls and texts, and the ability to tether. Everything else I can do on a separate pocket device that isn't on the cell network and that I can actually have complete control of.

tail_exchange 2y ago
Can't you just get a plan without data, or just turn off data and wifi? If you are only using your phone for calls and sms, and don't ever turn on your network, I'm not sure what security problems you are trying to avoid. Unless you are living under a totalitarian government, this seems excessive to me, but maybe there are other things I'm missing.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  > I'm not sure what security problems you are trying to avoid. Tracking, mostly.
dools 2y ago
So get a Nokia 4g and when you want mobile computing take a laptop

nonrandomstring 2y ago

Modular phones is a good solution. There have been a few genuine attempts [0] - and a big win is for the environment too because modular designs are repairable. I don't much buy the "slippery slope" argument for not offering a basic voice only phone, because there is a large demand for it according to article which I take as the premise for the discussion. The reality is that one cannot make a smartphone "as dumb as you want". Well, technically I can, but I don't know many other people who have a x100 bench microscope and SMD soldering gear to rework chips. Hardware capability is the key demand here because one fundamentally cannot trust software as it is today. Also, even if disabled in the OS, many potentially insecure and power-hungry subsystems remain active. Modular phones will need to mature somewhat to meet these new needs. It's high time that physical standards for modules were solid, but in Europe we will see interoperability and environmental regulations make that a reality. Expect to see adding cameras, Bluetooth, GSM and memory be as easy as flipping in a SIM. The environment and all cellphone users will thank us for that. [0] https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/modular-phones-roundup/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/modular-phones-roundup/

paulddraper 2y ago

> Here's the thing about smartphones - you can make them as dumb as you want Will they have the battery life of a dumb phone?

taeric 2y ago
Probably? My phone goes over a day on a charge, fairly easily. Especially if I'm barely using it.
- pavon 2y ago
  All the dumbphones I’ve owned last 3 days with moderate use and 5 days with light use.
  - taeric 2y ago
    Fair? Maybe? I don't remember phones ever lasting that long for me back in the day. I do somewhat miss being able to keep extra batteries, but not as much as I used to. I'm fairly confident if I turn off wifi, gps, and bluetooth on my phone, my phone would last several days on a charge easily. Things that kill my battery are almost always overly greedy bluetooth connections. Or back when I used my phone as my gps recorder for bike rides.
    - paulddraper 2y ago
      You could charge it every other day easy, no concern. You don't get a huge screen and fast processor for free.
      - taeric 2y ago
        The screen certainly takes up a decent chunk, but not using the phone negates a large part of that. To the point that I'm fairly confident most of the energy drain on my phone is the radios.

Wowfunhappy 2y ago

> Here's the thing about smartphones - you can make them as dumb as you want. You can determine the set of minimal features that works for you, providing everything you need while minimizing distractions. I know, I know - crazy concept! ...actually, I can't, at least on iOS, because many of the built-in apps cannot be uninstalled: 1. Health, Find My, and Wallet. These are clearly superfluous to the basic functionality of a phone. Why can't you remove them? 2. Safari. Given how central the web is to modern life, I kind of understand why Apple doesn't let you remove this. However, if you don't think it's healthy to have a web browser in your pocket, well, tough luck. 3. Messages. This makes sense, as texting is basic cell phone functionality. However, the iOS Messages app comes with its own integrated store that can't be disabled. Wat. 4. Clock. Setting timers is arguably basic cell phone functionality—but setting my bed time clearly is not, and this is built into the app! Sure, you could just not use this stuff! But if the central idea is "I don't want a full computer in my pocket that will distract me, I just want a very basic appliance to make calls and texts and maybe a few other extras which I will select", the iPhone is not a device for you! Apple won't let you cut it down past a relatively high baseline. Screen time doesn't really solve anything as it's very easy (and psychologically tempting) to bypass. I am not familiar with the current state of Android, but I would be surprised if the situation was significantly better. Let me know if I'm wrong!

taylodl 2y ago
1. Disable all notifications 2. Turn off your Wi-Fi. Using Safari over LTE is not fun! 3. Remove all social media applications 4. Don't store social media passwords in your keychain (can't be tempted to use the browser to hit the sites) 5. Use a strong password generator for your social media logins so it's impossible for you to remember them. Make sure each password is unique for each site so you definitely can't remember them. You will have gone a long way to making your phone less distracting. When you need to get work done (assuming you're in an office environment), put your phone in a desk drawer. Research has shown the physical presence of the phone on your desk or in your pocket can be distracting. Hidden away in a drawer and it's not distracting. And while you can't completely remove the Health, Find My, and Wallet applications, you can certainly make them practically inaccessible. You have a lot of controls available to make your phone less distracting.