4 ms·

I get why this idea has appeal, but unless you're able to get a large group to do it with great operational security (probably not achievable), I think this sto

by abeppu 2y ago

I get why this idea has appeal, but unless you're able to get a large group to do it with great operational security (probably not achievable), I think this story leads to the organizers being endlessly harassed by the police, charged with terrorism, dying mysteriously, or some combination thereof. And if there are enough people willing and able to conduct this sousveillance, maybe their efforts would be better organized by just trying to directly shrink police budgets.

Teever 2y ago
The thing is, that this kind of sousveillance is what we the people should be doing by default. All people in positions of power should be watched by everyone else to ensure that they're not abusing those positions of power. That's the first step to shrinking parts of police budgets that are excessive and improving parts of their budgets that aren't. I agree with you that this leads to harassment and more from the police but I can't imagine there's any way to deal with them that doesn't involve that outcome. Like that's just what bad people do, and they do it more when you try and stop them from abusing positions of authority.
- abeppu 2y ago
  > spill some of their greasy secrets like which corrupt cop is cheating on their wife or whatever > Do this publicly, name and shame I think these are the parts that are most likely to trigger dangerous retributive action. I think a less dramatic approach is to make sure everyone's on the same page about how much cops take from our communities and how little they add. I sometimes look at the pay information for my city. A lot of the people making over 400k are cops whose overtime pay is significantly more than their salary. But whenever I see cops, they're just standing around chatting. Even "responding" to some situation, there will be 3 cop cars blocking traffic so 5 of them can chat while one talks on the radio looming over a homeless person in cuffs on the sidewalk. And they take forever to do anything. I watched them take a whole day to try to get a trespasser off the roof of a building across the street. Eventually they ordered several pizzas told the trespasser that he could have some food and ice water if he came down. Then the cops just ate and chatted with each other while blocking traffic and causing a scene for multiple more hours. But sure, they're all legitimately doing 60 hours a week of overtime that's totally necessary police work. This is the kind of thing that can get moderates and conservatives annoyed: those cops are probably making more money than you as they hang out and gab, and they're causing traffic and transit delays. Tell your friends.
  - Teever 2y ago
    It sounds like you're already doing the sousveillance that I'm talking about, and it sounds like you're willing to share the information that you learn from it to people on the internet. The next step would be to assign some faces and names to the people in your stories and publish (anonymously if you prefer) it in a place where it's likely to gain traction in your local community with those moderates and conservatives.
    - abeppu 2y ago
      Yes I have pics of cops eating pizza. No, I will not post the faces of particular pizza eating cops, because they are still people carrying guns in my neighborhood who can probably kill and get away with it. I don't benefit from attacking specific cops. But every time someone complains about transit delays, I can share an anecdote about three cop cars parked on the light rail tracks, totally disrupting service while they chat around a person in handcuffs. And every time someone mentions the ridiculously expensive bathroom, I can point out that it ended up costing a lot, but less than one sheriff's deputy with overtime but not counting benefits. We can popularize the understanding that cops are an expensive source of problems, even if you're not a target.

by abeppu 2y ago

Teever 2y ago

The thing is, that this kind of sousveillance is what we the people should be doing by default. All people in positions of power should be watched by everyone else to ensure that they're not abusing those positions of power. That's the first step to shrinking parts of police budgets that are excessive and improving parts of their budgets that aren't. I agree with you that this leads to harassment and more from the police but I can't imagine there's any way to deal with them that doesn't involve that outcome. Like that's just what bad people do, and they do it more when you try and stop them from abusing positions of authority.

abeppu 2y ago
> spill some of their greasy secrets like which corrupt cop is cheating on their wife or whatever > Do this publicly, name and shame I think these are the parts that are most likely to trigger dangerous retributive action. I think a less dramatic approach is to make sure everyone's on the same page about how much cops take from our communities and how little they add. I sometimes look at the pay information for my city. A lot of the people making over 400k are cops whose overtime pay is significantly more than their salary. But whenever I see cops, they're just standing around chatting. Even "responding" to some situation, there will be 3 cop cars blocking traffic so 5 of them can chat while one talks on the radio looming over a homeless person in cuffs on the sidewalk. And they take forever to do anything. I watched them take a whole day to try to get a trespasser off the roof of a building across the street. Eventually they ordered several pizzas told the trespasser that he could have some food and ice water if he came down. Then the cops just ate and chatted with each other while blocking traffic and causing a scene for multiple more hours. But sure, they're all legitimately doing 60 hours a week of overtime that's totally necessary police work. This is the kind of thing that can get moderates and conservatives annoyed: those cops are probably making more money than you as they hang out and gab, and they're causing traffic and transit delays. Tell your friends.
- Teever 2y ago
  It sounds like you're already doing the sousveillance that I'm talking about, and it sounds like you're willing to share the information that you learn from it to people on the internet. The next step would be to assign some faces and names to the people in your stories and publish (anonymously if you prefer) it in a place where it's likely to gain traction in your local community with those moderates and conservatives.
  - abeppu 2y ago
    Yes I have pics of cops eating pizza. No, I will not post the faces of particular pizza eating cops, because they are still people carrying guns in my neighborhood who can probably kill and get away with it. I don't benefit from attacking specific cops. But every time someone complains about transit delays, I can share an anecdote about three cop cars parked on the light rail tracks, totally disrupting service while they chat around a person in handcuffs. And every time someone mentions the ridiculously expensive bathroom, I can point out that it ended up costing a lot, but less than one sheriff's deputy with overtime but not counting benefits. We can popularize the understanding that cops are an expensive source of problems, even if you're not a target.