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> demilitarization Can you explain what that term means in this context?

by N0b8ez 2y ago

diob 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
dopamean 2y ago
I'm not sure of exact timing and laws that are in place but basically since 2003 actual military equipment has made its way from the armed forces to local police departments all over the country. I believe in many cases it has come free of charge. As a result you see cops in small towns armed like they're going to war in Fallujah.
- diob 2y ago
  Yep, easy to google, I'm not sure why folks want us to summarize and explain it all here for them. It's been going on for years and when you have stuff like that, you unfortunately tend to find a reason to use it.
  - N0b8ez 2y ago
    Things that are political or politics-adjacent often mean different things to different people (e.g. "defund the police"). Someone asking someone else for a definition of their own meaning helps prevent a shouting match.
    - MeImCounting 2y ago
      Personally it means taking their long guns and any type of armored vehicles away. I dont want to see cops with SBRs, APCs, night vision equipment, kitted out rifles or any of the other trappings of military special forces or death squads. I could see perhaps some exceptions but not just for any municipal PD. Along this line but to a greater extreme that I dont actually think is possible right now is taking all their guns away. Generally the argument for cops having guns is so they can defend themselves from armed and violent criminals. This implies using those guns to shoot said criminals before they can hurt cops. I am against this because I believe in the rule of law and that is circumventing the entire judicial system by making the officer capable of being judge jury and executioner. This is wrong and undermines the entire judicial apparatus.
      - N0b8ez 2y ago
        I would have guessed the primary argument for armed police would be to scare criminals and dissuade them from violent crime. I'd guess some people would argue that having N fewer incidents of cops murdering suspects isn't worth having X% more crime overall. But I'd also expect it's really hard to build a statistical model for how cause and effect would work. Would you say that this is a topic where there's a clear utilitarian winner, or not?
        MeImCounting 2y ago
        Well theres a couple ways to come at this first theres the idea that as you put it N fewer incidents of cops murdering people is proportionate to some decrease in crime deterrence. Then theres my preferred perspective which is that the strength and legitimacy of the rule of law tends to be a greater force in benefitting society than any % increase or decrease of the other factors. I think weve done a great job creating the framework for a generally equitable and reasonable justice system (especially considering that its not set in stone and we can adjust it to be more effective as we see fit) and just have done a less than great job at implementing it. To answer your question I dont think theres a clear winner but as I generally believe in the forward march of civilization I do think we can simultaneously disarm cops and reduce crime while also making the judicial system more focused on rehab and less on punishment. I'm bullish on empathy, freedom and peace! What do you think?
        N0b8ez 2y ago
        That makes sense to me. However, I live in an area with very little crime, so I might be biased towards an approach that centers on the legitimacy of the rule of law, without me needing to worry much about law and order being the result of that commitment. I wonder if you consider El Salvador to be an exception to your rule, or if you think Bukele is actually restoring effectual rule of law. Ecuador is another similar case. Do you think Bukele is a "good leader"?
        MeImCounting 2y ago

> demilitarization Can you explain what that term means in this context?

by N0b8ez 2y ago

> demilitarization Can you explain what that term means in this context?

diob 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

dopamean 2y ago

I'm not sure of exact timing and laws that are in place but basically since 2003 actual military equipment has made its way from the armed forces to local police departments all over the country. I believe in many cases it has come free of charge. As a result you see cops in small towns armed like they're going to war in Fallujah.

diob 2y ago
Yep, easy to google, I'm not sure why folks want us to summarize and explain it all here for them. It's been going on for years and when you have stuff like that, you unfortunately tend to find a reason to use it.
- N0b8ez 2y ago
  Things that are political or politics-adjacent often mean different things to different people (e.g. "defund the police"). Someone asking someone else for a definition of their own meaning helps prevent a shouting match.
  - MeImCounting 2y ago
    Personally it means taking their long guns and any type of armored vehicles away. I dont want to see cops with SBRs, APCs, night vision equipment, kitted out rifles or any of the other trappings of military special forces or death squads. I could see perhaps some exceptions but not just for any municipal PD. Along this line but to a greater extreme that I dont actually think is possible right now is taking all their guns away. Generally the argument for cops having guns is so they can defend themselves from armed and violent criminals. This implies using those guns to shoot said criminals before they can hurt cops. I am against this because I believe in the rule of law and that is circumventing the entire judicial system by making the officer capable of being judge jury and executioner. This is wrong and undermines the entire judicial apparatus.
    - N0b8ez 2y ago
      I would have guessed the primary argument for armed police would be to scare criminals and dissuade them from violent crime. I'd guess some people would argue that having N fewer incidents of cops murdering suspects isn't worth having X% more crime overall. But I'd also expect it's really hard to build a statistical model for how cause and effect would work. Would you say that this is a topic where there's a clear utilitarian winner, or not?
      - MeImCounting 2y ago
        Well theres a couple ways to come at this first theres the idea that as you put it N fewer incidents of cops murdering people is proportionate to some decrease in crime deterrence. Then theres my preferred perspective which is that the strength and legitimacy of the rule of law tends to be a greater force in benefitting society than any % increase or decrease of the other factors. I think weve done a great job creating the framework for a generally equitable and reasonable justice system (especially considering that its not set in stone and we can adjust it to be more effective as we see fit) and just have done a less than great job at implementing it. To answer your question I dont think theres a clear winner but as I generally believe in the forward march of civilization I do think we can simultaneously disarm cops and reduce crime while also making the judicial system more focused on rehab and less on punishment. I'm bullish on empathy, freedom and peace! What do you think?
        N0b8ez 2y ago
        That makes sense to me. However, I live in an area with very little crime, so I might be biased towards an approach that centers on the legitimacy of the rule of law, without me needing to worry much about law and order being the result of that commitment. I wonder if you consider El Salvador to be an exception to your rule, or if you think Bukele is actually restoring effectual rule of law. Ecuador is another similar case. Do you think Bukele is a "good leader"?
        MeImCounting 2y ago