5 ms·

I think the idea is to all apps and developers gradually transition and develop with ARM support - after all even the mobile devices will be running on ARM soon

by chucke1992 2y ago

I think the idea is to all apps and developers gradually transition and develop with ARM support - after all even the mobile devices will be running on ARM sooner or later so future apps, games will be developed with ARM in mind anyway. x86 apps will be supported - with some paid support for example. But it all depends on the market share of ARM at one point. But you can run DOS apps still so with emulation layer - and the increasing performance of ARM - one way or another old apps will be able to run on ARM. For those who will need to those. Unlike Mac, Microsoft just can't drop past generations and call it a day.

nerdjon 2y ago
> But it all depends on the market share of ARM at one point. Right thats kinda my point, unless I have missed it I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon. Apple was able to force the transition to happen. I highly doubt Microsoft is going to risk actually dropping x86 from Windows on any reasonable timescale and there has to be something for ARM to x86. Unlike when Apple announced that all of Mac was transitioning, there isn't a reason for a developer to think that anytime soon they can drop x86, so why complicate what they have now by adding ARM?
- chucke1992 2y ago
  > Right thats kinda my point, unless I have missed it I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon. A lot of gaming these days is running on mobile phones and portable PCs - and now laptops - will highly likely leverage ARM sooner or later. Add to that some eGPU with Nvidia cards and you get a monster. Intel is in a deep trouble. >Unlike when Apple announced that all of Mac was transitioning, there isn't a reason for a developer to think that anytime soon they can drop x86, so why complicate what they have now by adding ARM? ARM is the future as there is a desire to have long battery life and performance increase. Microsoft right now does have x86 emulation layer and app support right now is much better already than it was before (in RT era where it did not even have the emulator). Devs are developing apps across all the devices and ARM based Mac is already requires you to develop ARM compatible apps.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon. The vast majority of gamers game on smartphones and tablets with ARM processors. Some of the biggest gaming hits recently have also been cross-architecture and cross-platform, namely Genshin Impact and Honkai: Star Rail. Native ARM and x86 releases, runs on Windows, Android, and iOS. There are also gaming hits like Fate/Grand Order that don't have an x86/Windows release at all due to not even considering desktops/laptops. The future is already here.
  - nerdjon 2y ago
    > The vast majority of gamers game on smartphones and tablets with ARM processors. Those are clearly not the gamers I am talking about. The gamers I am referring too are not switching to playing on mobile phones. If they are switching to handheld devices they are going with x86 devices like the Steam Deck. There is a massive market out there of games that do not support those platforms. That are only just now scratching the surface with games like Death Stranding releasing on iPhone and Mac. Except for Nintendo the 2 main AAA consoles are x86 based, and I have seen no rumors of that changing. So great, there are large mobile games but lets not pretend that there is not a huge market that the future is not already here for and shows very little signs of actually changing anytime soon. https://steamcharts.com/ https://steamcharts.com/ that is what I am talking about. Which unless I am mistaken the only one of those in the top list that actually runs on mobile is PUBG. > There are also gaming hits like Fate/Grand Order that don't have an x86/Windows release at all due to not even considering desktops/laptops. That is nothing new, Pokemon GO came out in 2016. That isnt a sign that gaming is changing but that gaming is expanding to include new types of players. But the "hardcore" AAA gaming market still very much exists, and is firmly on x86 right now.
    - jsheard 2y ago
      > Which unless I am mistaken the only one of those in the top list that actually runs on mobile is PUBG. Even in that case it's "kind of but not really". PUBG Mobile is a distinct game from regular PUBG, they have similar core gameplay but they are developed independently of each other.
- jsheard 2y ago
  > Right thats kinda my point, unless I have missed it I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines You can buy an ATX motherboard with an Ampere ARM server chip on it, I wonder if those will be able to boot Windows... https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-ampere-altra-max-ampere-altra-processors/p/N82E16813140134 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-amp...
- TylerE 2y ago
  Gaming is barely aa blip in the overall market these days, and they're pretty much the only people who want X86 at this point.

nerdjon 2y ago

> But it all depends on the market share of ARM at one point. Right thats kinda my point, unless I have missed it I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon. Apple was able to force the transition to happen. I highly doubt Microsoft is going to risk actually dropping x86 from Windows on any reasonable timescale and there has to be something for ARM to x86. Unlike when Apple announced that all of Mac was transitioning, there isn't a reason for a developer to think that anytime soon they can drop x86, so why complicate what they have now by adding ARM?

chucke1992 2y ago
> Right thats kinda my point, unless I have missed it I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon. A lot of gaming these days is running on mobile phones and portable PCs - and now laptops - will highly likely leverage ARM sooner or later. Add to that some eGPU with Nvidia cards and you get a monster. Intel is in a deep trouble. >Unlike when Apple announced that all of Mac was transitioning, there isn't a reason for a developer to think that anytime soon they can drop x86, so why complicate what they have now by adding ARM? ARM is the future as there is a desire to have long battery life and performance increase. Microsoft right now does have x86 emulation layer and app support right now is much better already than it was before (in RT era where it did not even have the emulator). Devs are developing apps across all the devices and ARM based Mac is already requires you to develop ARM compatible apps.
Dalewyn 2y ago
>I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon. The vast majority of gamers game on smartphones and tablets with ARM processors. Some of the biggest gaming hits recently have also been cross-architecture and cross-platform, namely Genshin Impact and Honkai: Star Rail. Native ARM and x86 releases, runs on Windows, Android, and iOS. There are also gaming hits like Fate/Grand Order that don't have an x86/Windows release at all due to not even considering desktops/laptops. The future is already here.
- nerdjon 2y ago
  > The vast majority of gamers game on smartphones and tablets with ARM processors. Those are clearly not the gamers I am talking about. The gamers I am referring too are not switching to playing on mobile phones. If they are switching to handheld devices they are going with x86 devices like the Steam Deck. There is a massive market out there of games that do not support those platforms. That are only just now scratching the surface with games like Death Stranding releasing on iPhone and Mac. Except for Nintendo the 2 main AAA consoles are x86 based, and I have seen no rumors of that changing. So great, there are large mobile games but lets not pretend that there is not a huge market that the future is not already here for and shows very little signs of actually changing anytime soon. https://steamcharts.com/ https://steamcharts.com/ that is what I am talking about. Which unless I am mistaken the only one of those in the top list that actually runs on mobile is PUBG. > There are also gaming hits like Fate/Grand Order that don't have an x86/Windows release at all due to not even considering desktops/laptops. That is nothing new, Pokemon GO came out in 2016. That isnt a sign that gaming is changing but that gaming is expanding to include new types of players. But the "hardcore" AAA gaming market still very much exists, and is firmly on x86 right now.
  - jsheard 2y ago
    > Which unless I am mistaken the only one of those in the top list that actually runs on mobile is PUBG. Even in that case it's "kind of but not really". PUBG Mobile is a distinct game from regular PUBG, they have similar core gameplay but they are developed independently of each other.
jsheard 2y ago
> Right thats kinda my point, unless I have missed it I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines You can buy an ATX motherboard with an Ampere ARM server chip on it, I wonder if those will be able to boot Windows... https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-ampere-altra-max-ampere-altra-processors/p/N82E16813140134 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-amp...
TylerE 2y ago
Gaming is barely aa blip in the overall market these days, and they're pretty much the only people who want X86 at this point.