4 ms·

It's not fine when it happens, but the issue you describe is a property of the PDF viewing application more than the PDF file format (which supports semantic pa

by jl6 2y ago

It's not fine when it happens, but the issue you describe is a property of the PDF viewing application more than the PDF file format (which supports semantic paragraph tags, for example). Adobe Acrobat Reader handles copy & paste well.

eviks 2y ago
Of course Acrobat Reader doesn't handle it well since it's an inherent design flaw of the format despite your trying to deny the obvious. Just tried it - same issue, a paragraph of 3 lines is pasted as 3 lines > PDF file format (which supports semantic paragraph tags, for example). These are called newlines and have a pretty widespread support outside of some paper pockets of resistance! You only need some other semantic tags because the format fails at basics
- jl6 2y ago
  Example PDF? Because I tried it too and it worked. Does your PDF use tags?
  - eviks 2y ago
    Any PDF from a generic google search? Here is one from Adobe https://www.adobe.com/support/products/enterprise/knowledgecenter/media/c4611_sample_explain.pdf https://www.adobe.com/support/products/enterprise/knowledgec... Or even better: their annual investor docs a team of professionals has spent time carefully preparing... like this https://www.adobe.com/pdf-page.html?pdfTarget=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYWRvYmUuY29tL2NvbnRlbnQvZGFtL2NjL2VuL2ludmVzdG9yLXJlbGF0aW9ucy9wZGZzL0FEQkUtMjAyNC1TdG9ja2hvbGRlci1MZXR0ZXIucGRm https://www.adobe.com/pdf-page.html?pdfTarget=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3... (but don't look at the annual report, that marvel of a public disclosure document not only doesn't copy&paste paragraphs, but has another nice niche use of PDF - you get garbage chars instead of text, rather ironic) https://www.adobe.com/pdf-page.html?pdfTarget=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYWRvYmUuY29tL2NvbnRlbnQvZGFtL2NjL2VuL2ludmVzdG9yLXJlbGF0aW9ucy9wZGZzL0FEQkUtMjAyMy1Bbm51YWwtUmVwb3J0LnBkZg== https://www.adobe.com/pdf-page.html?pdfTarget=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3...
    - gruez 2y ago
      I tried a few documents and got the same result (ie. each line being treated as separate paragraphs), but was able to find that the fed FOMC meeting doc[1] actually worked properly, but only on adobe acrobat. It was still screwed up on pdf.js. So I guess the format itself technically supports it, but implementations rarely do it properly. [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/mediacenter/files/FOMCpresconf20240501.pdf https://www.federalreserve.gov/mediacenter/files/FOMCprescon...
    - jl6 2y ago
      The first two work just fine in Adobe Acrobat Reader on iOS. The third is garbage, probably because the producer didn't include a ToUnicode map or equivalent. The format supports a lot that is not commonly implemented by PDF readers (or PDF producers).
      - eviks 2y ago
        How does this help me on Windows? And a good format wouldn't require any ToUnicode maps for simple text in the first place And poorly supporting a lot without common implementations isn't a defence against the charge of high complexity and bad design, but a reinforcement thereof (also, no, the first document doesn't work on iOS, I select title and two paragraphs, copy, paste, and I get a single line instead of 3, so a different manifestation of the same common fail of PDFs)
        jl6 2y ago
        “Here’s a nickel kid, get yourself a better OS”? Still, the fact that some PDF processors can make this work shows that the format isn’t broken “by design”.

by jl6 2y ago

eviks 2y ago

Of course Acrobat Reader doesn't handle it well since it's an inherent design flaw of the format despite your trying to deny the obvious. Just tried it - same issue, a paragraph of 3 lines is pasted as 3 lines > PDF file format (which supports semantic paragraph tags, for example). These are called newlines and have a pretty widespread support outside of some paper pockets of resistance! You only need some other semantic tags because the format fails at basics

jl6 2y ago
Example PDF? Because I tried it too and it worked. Does your PDF use tags?
- eviks 2y ago
  Any PDF from a generic google search? Here is one from Adobe https://www.adobe.com/support/products/enterprise/knowledgecenter/media/c4611_sample_explain.pdf https://www.adobe.com/support/products/enterprise/knowledgec... Or even better: their annual investor docs a team of professionals has spent time carefully preparing... like this https://www.adobe.com/pdf-page.html?pdfTarget=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYWRvYmUuY29tL2NvbnRlbnQvZGFtL2NjL2VuL2ludmVzdG9yLXJlbGF0aW9ucy9wZGZzL0FEQkUtMjAyNC1TdG9ja2hvbGRlci1MZXR0ZXIucGRm https://www.adobe.com/pdf-page.html?pdfTarget=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3... (but don't look at the annual report, that marvel of a public disclosure document not only doesn't copy&paste paragraphs, but has another nice niche use of PDF - you get garbage chars instead of text, rather ironic) https://www.adobe.com/pdf-page.html?pdfTarget=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYWRvYmUuY29tL2NvbnRlbnQvZGFtL2NjL2VuL2ludmVzdG9yLXJlbGF0aW9ucy9wZGZzL0FEQkUtMjAyMy1Bbm51YWwtUmVwb3J0LnBkZg== https://www.adobe.com/pdf-page.html?pdfTarget=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3...
  - gruez 2y ago
    I tried a few documents and got the same result (ie. each line being treated as separate paragraphs), but was able to find that the fed FOMC meeting doc[1] actually worked properly, but only on adobe acrobat. It was still screwed up on pdf.js. So I guess the format itself technically supports it, but implementations rarely do it properly. [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/mediacenter/files/FOMCpresconf20240501.pdf https://www.federalreserve.gov/mediacenter/files/FOMCprescon...
  - jl6 2y ago
    The first two work just fine in Adobe Acrobat Reader on iOS. The third is garbage, probably because the producer didn't include a ToUnicode map or equivalent. The format supports a lot that is not commonly implemented by PDF readers (or PDF producers).
    - eviks 2y ago
      How does this help me on Windows? And a good format wouldn't require any ToUnicode maps for simple text in the first place And poorly supporting a lot without common implementations isn't a defence against the charge of high complexity and bad design, but a reinforcement thereof (also, no, the first document doesn't work on iOS, I select title and two paragraphs, copy, paste, and I get a single line instead of 3, so a different manifestation of the same common fail of PDFs)
      - jl6 2y ago
        “Here’s a nickel kid, get yourself a better OS”? Still, the fact that some PDF processors can make this work shows that the format isn’t broken “by design”.