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Employers don’t want job seekers, they want people who can do the job. What I am finding of late is most people are woefully under prepared and under skilled.
by mbrumlow 2y ago
Employers don’t want job seekers, they want people who can do the job.
What I am finding of late is most people are woefully under prepared and under skilled.
In the other hand everybody has a degree and wants six figures because of it.
The job market is tight, but not fucked. When tight it does not have the stomach to employee warm bodies.
The fix is lowerred expectations from job seekers and the long term fix is schools need to become hard again and stop being a product.
We need weed out classes, the goal is not to graduate as many as we can, it’s to educate. Maybe if they hard class was hard, it was hard for a reason, and dumbing it down so people don’t drop the class is only doing them a disservice when it comes to the work force which will demand results, not attendance.
- hooverd 2y agoOn the other hand, employers will work you to the bone if you let them and fire you at the drop of a hire despite prattling on about respect and loyalty. People briefly realized that better things were possible.
- SantalBlush 2y agoSo you want universities to act as your vocational training program for free? No thanks. If you want to make demands about college curriculum, you can start paying up. Until then, universities owe employers nothing. Employers have already shifted enough of their job training costs onto universities and their unwitting students. The free ride is over.
- alephnerd 2y agoUniversities owe their graduates with 5-6 figure college debt jobs that can pay those debts off. > Employers have already shifted enough of their job training costs onto universities and their unwitting students. The free ride is over. I'm fine with this model, but will applicants be interested in earning a bit above minimum wage for 3 years as we train them from scratch? This is the model that the Indian and Chinese tech industry uses - hire everyone, pay them a pittance, make them work insane hours, and the ones who survive and build relevant skills graduating to European level salaries in Asia.
- SantalBlush 2y agoI think certification institutions--from universities to bootcamps--have found that it's more profitable to focus on quantity over quality. They are producing dollar store products because the market has shown that employers are dollar store customers, despite what they say. The more valid the cert program is as a hiring signal, the more it will restrict the quantity of labor supply, and employers don't want this; they want to churn and burn through a pile of young people--or outsource--and then throw them away when their upkeep gets too expensive.
- alephnerd 2y ago> employers don't want this; they want to churn and burn through a pile of young people--or outsource--and then throw them away when their upkeep gets too expensive I am an employer and have funded employers. That is a VERY WARPED view of hiring and I hope to god you never ever come near to getting a promotion to EM. > I think certification institutions--from universities to bootcamps--have found that it's more profitable to focus on quantity over quality That's BS. There's a reason employers still subconsciously discriminate based on the quality of program you graduated from. The CS curriculum at Cal beats the CS curriculum at CSU East Bay in almost every single way, and it isn't because of the content alone but also the broad education provided. We don't need code monkeys (and if you are a code monkey, you job is absolutely going to be automated or outsourced in the next 3-5 years), we need people who deep down understand or can think critically about a specific domain (technical or business). I don't care if you can code in Cobol or NodeJS - can you deliver an MVP in a quarter, and then have the ability to pivot that MVP to meet changing customer or product demands? Can you architect services to both be cost efficient AND resource efficient? We pay people in the tech industry good money to THINK. Critical Thinking is the actual blocker, and this is the primary reason why Leetcode and Whiteboard interviews are so popular. At the end of the day, a Leetcode medium and Whiteboard interview is a puzzle, and if you can solve puzzles, you can think critically about architecture, product decisions, etc.
- mbrumlow 2y agoI want university to produce people ready for the work force. This ultimately means less people will graduate. It’s clearer that the paper that said you were ready for work no longer means that. The fix is universes not worrying about pass fail rates and admission stats and focus on creating classes that produce what they advertised they would produce. It’s so tiring to me people with masters in CS who can’t fizzbuzz or for that matter do basic programming even more simple. Now days if too many people fail a class or get a bad grade, the students rally and write notes about how they are so smart and the teacher sucked. The. They grade on a curve and get a degree that is suitable for toilet paper. Most jobs don’t require a degree and we should stop acting like they do.
- SantalBlush 2y agoIf you're having trouble finding CS masters grads who can't write a fizzbuzz, your salary band is too low. Full stop. Which pretty much confirms my point. Stop complaining, stop blaming schools, and start paying more.
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- mbrumlow 2y agoFull Stop! Your right! That is it!
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y agoJob seekers’ expectations are hardly sky high my man. People need to pay the debts they accrued to get through the filters that you put up, and they need to put food on the table. They don’t have any alternative.
- mbrumlow 2y agoThey did. And they do. Don’t get a degree. Don’t pay for something that is clearly not worth it.