4 ms·

> Standards are meant to be broken, especially when they’re based on outdated assumptions. A standard I'd love to be modernized would be wider availability of

> Standards are meant to be broken, especially when they’re based on outdated assumptions. A standard I'd love to be modernized would be wider availability of 240 volt outlets in North America. I'd love to have the option of a 240 V electric kettle on my countertop or a 240 V toaster/pizza oven.

fragmede 2y ago
for your kettle, the Japanese ones cheat by just keeping it hot all the time. as far as a pizza oven, unless you want to import one from Europe and have an electrician wire you up 240V, the new induction ones are cool (well, hot).
- voxadam 2y ago
  > for your kettle, the Japanese ones cheat by just keeping it hot all the time Sure, but that's not what I'd call terribly energy efficient. I'd rather boil on demand seeing as my wife, the primary user of the kettle, doesn't drink tea while she's sleeping or at the office. As far as the pizza oven goes I'll probably end up going with an propane Ooni, Roccbox, or the like on my patio. I'm just saying that I'd like to option to dump 240V @ 13A into a small appliance in my kitchen. As it stands now I'm limited to a paltry 1500 watts compared to a peek that's more than double that in the UK.
jimbobthrowawy 2y ago
Think you'd go with NEMA 240V sockets, or prefer a different standard of outlet?
- jen20 2y ago
  The Type G connector serves perfectly well, and is vastly safer than the standard US outlets!
  - ars 2y ago
    The Type G is way too big! They only reason it's that big is leftover baggage from ring circuits requiring fuses in the plugs. And while it might be safer on paper, in practice there is little difference in injury rates US vs UK.
    - jimbobthrowawy 2y ago
      I appreciate the plugs having replaceable fuses in them. Makes it harder for people to overload extension leads and the like. Totally disagree on that injury rate though, and you would too if you ever stepped on a type G plug.
- ars 2y ago
  The NEMA 6-20 is what I'd want. I actually think the US should start requiring those. Start with having 1 or 2 in the kitchen, and additionally 1 within 100 feet of any spot in the house. Once they are more common we'll start to see appliances start using them. At first mainly for cooking and vacuum cleaners.
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    I'm in favor of having common ~240v sockets in the US, for all of the perhaps-obvious reasons including boiling water more-quickly for coffee or tea and running a portable induction hob that doesn't suck. But if the NEMA 5-15 is a not-great standard, then the NEMA 6-20 is also equally-flawed. They've both got the same set of issues. The only good reason for 6-20 (or 6-15) in American kitchens is that it is an "approved" connector. It fits in, today, with what we have here in the States in terms of broadly-accepted wiring methods, safety testing, and formal training. That is indeed a good reason, and I do not wish to diminish that reason. If 6-20 were already commonly-used in residential environments -- anywhere -- then it'd be easy to say that it would be a nice thing to have in every kitchen. But it has neither momentum nor inertia, because it mostly just doesn't exist. So if we're going to set out sights on what is ostensibly going to be considered a "new" plug, then: Why not aim for one that doesn't inherently suck?
    - ars 2y ago
      Lots of A/Cs and high power equipment uses NEMA 6, there's wide availability of parts for it. For example I have several in my house. EV's have connectors for it as well. The thing is people keep complaining about how bad NEMA 5 and 6 are - and yet, somehow, the US doesn't have a lot of electrical injuries. So it seems the theory doesn't match the reality. It's just not that big of a problem. NEMA 5/6 sockets have a lot going for them: They are physically relatively small, the flat blade has a much better contact surface relative to round plugs, they are also much cheaper to make (both the plug and the socket). I could certainly design something better - I would put all 3 prongs in a line (with un-even spacing to ensure polarity) to make the plug even smaller, and put an insulating sheath on the top of the prong designed exactly right so that when it makes electrical contact the metal part of the prong is no longer exposed. Even better: You could make an outlet that is simultaneously 120V with backward compatibility and 240V! (And I just realized that polarity is pointless - 240V have a hot on both sides.) I'm starting to warm to your idea of a new outlet. Have three slots in a row. > Why not aim for one that doesn't inherently suck? Out of curiosity, other than the things I designed against, what other issues do you have with it?

fragmede 2y ago

for your kettle, the Japanese ones cheat by just keeping it hot all the time. as far as a pizza oven, unless you want to import one from Europe and have an electrician wire you up 240V, the new induction ones are cool (well, hot).

voxadam 2y ago
> for your kettle, the Japanese ones cheat by just keeping it hot all the time Sure, but that's not what I'd call terribly energy efficient. I'd rather boil on demand seeing as my wife, the primary user of the kettle, doesn't drink tea while she's sleeping or at the office. As far as the pizza oven goes I'll probably end up going with an propane Ooni, Roccbox, or the like on my patio. I'm just saying that I'd like to option to dump 240V @ 13A into a small appliance in my kitchen. As it stands now I'm limited to a paltry 1500 watts compared to a peek that's more than double that in the UK.

jimbobthrowawy 2y ago

Think you'd go with NEMA 240V sockets, or prefer a different standard of outlet?

jen20 2y ago
The Type G connector serves perfectly well, and is vastly safer than the standard US outlets!
- ars 2y ago
  The Type G is way too big! They only reason it's that big is leftover baggage from ring circuits requiring fuses in the plugs. And while it might be safer on paper, in practice there is little difference in injury rates US vs UK.
  - jimbobthrowawy 2y ago
    I appreciate the plugs having replaceable fuses in them. Makes it harder for people to overload extension leads and the like. Totally disagree on that injury rate though, and you would too if you ever stepped on a type G plug.
ars 2y ago
The NEMA 6-20 is what I'd want. I actually think the US should start requiring those. Start with having 1 or 2 in the kitchen, and additionally 1 within 100 feet of any spot in the house. Once they are more common we'll start to see appliances start using them. At first mainly for cooking and vacuum cleaners.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  I'm in favor of having common ~240v sockets in the US, for all of the perhaps-obvious reasons including boiling water more-quickly for coffee or tea and running a portable induction hob that doesn't suck. But if the NEMA 5-15 is a not-great standard, then the NEMA 6-20 is also equally-flawed. They've both got the same set of issues. The only good reason for 6-20 (or 6-15) in American kitchens is that it is an "approved" connector. It fits in, today, with what we have here in the States in terms of broadly-accepted wiring methods, safety testing, and formal training. That is indeed a good reason, and I do not wish to diminish that reason. If 6-20 were already commonly-used in residential environments -- anywhere -- then it'd be easy to say that it would be a nice thing to have in every kitchen. But it has neither momentum nor inertia, because it mostly just doesn't exist. So if we're going to set out sights on what is ostensibly going to be considered a "new" plug, then: Why not aim for one that doesn't inherently suck?
  - ars 2y ago
    Lots of A/Cs and high power equipment uses NEMA 6, there's wide availability of parts for it. For example I have several in my house. EV's have connectors for it as well. The thing is people keep complaining about how bad NEMA 5 and 6 are - and yet, somehow, the US doesn't have a lot of electrical injuries. So it seems the theory doesn't match the reality. It's just not that big of a problem. NEMA 5/6 sockets have a lot going for them: They are physically relatively small, the flat blade has a much better contact surface relative to round plugs, they are also much cheaper to make (both the plug and the socket). I could certainly design something better - I would put all 3 prongs in a line (with un-even spacing to ensure polarity) to make the plug even smaller, and put an insulating sheath on the top of the prong designed exactly right so that when it makes electrical contact the metal part of the prong is no longer exposed. Even better: You could make an outlet that is simultaneously 120V with backward compatibility and 240V! (And I just realized that polarity is pointless - 240V have a hot on both sides.) I'm starting to warm to your idea of a new outlet. Have three slots in a row. > Why not aim for one that doesn't inherently suck? Out of curiosity, other than the things I designed against, what other issues do you have with it?