4 ms·

You think like this today. Would your life be better if you had this stance for your last 30 years? Would that be your advice for young adults who are just ente

You think like this today. Would your life be better if you had this stance for your last 30 years? Would that be your advice for young adults who are just entering life? I guess you were lucky that you didn't have any cases of cancer in the family (if you had, then I apologize and I'm sorry). No important problems that are only easily solved by lots of money. But if it's just luck, then it's really inappropriate to build a world view based on what you were lucky enough to avoid.

djtango 2y ago
Could you help me explore your view a bit more? Parent's advice is about favouring team and striving to be an enabler/multiplier rather than sweating over individual perfection of craft. It's a fairly common conclusion that some people arrive at. What are you contrasting that to? How does that relate to money problems and health problems? Is becoming a multiplier mutually exclusive from chasing financial success in your opinion? EDIT to elaborate on the concept of a multiplier. Say you can become a mythical 10x engineer or you can become a mentor. If you can mentor 5 normal engineers from 1x to 2x then you've now got 10x engineering and the org also has reduced bus factor. What about if those 5 2x engineers can bring another 25 0.5x engineers up to 1x engineers. Suddenly your org can become much more than a single 10x engineer can accomplish. This is quite spurious and 9 mothers can't have a baby in 1 month but it's a useful mental model for the value of individual contribution vs coaching/managing. In reality while people like to balk at the idea of the 10x engineer, the truth is there are probably 100x and 1000x engineers out there. Von Neumann is probably a 1000x or more. Linus and Page&Brin are probably at least a 100x etc - those multiples are made up, power laws make numbers go big
- self_awareness 2y ago
  I never had the pleasure of working with a manager that cared about me, nor I had contact with any other form of a "multipler" person, other than my parents. So I don't think I'm a good candidate for discussion in this subject, because obviously I won't really know what I'm writing about, and I'm certainly not knowledgable about what you care about. I only had the impression that the OP tells his subordinates that "they shouldn't oversweat, do some meaningful stuff but remember it won't really matter in the end". This is while working for a company that was created by a person who has probably worked their ass off, and maybe even sacrificed their private life for pursuing a dream of having a large company. All I'm saying is that money, success, power, connections are so important in life that they give happiness even for other people. If we're poor, then where do we go for help? To those who are richer or more powerful. They enable our happiness in our time of need (that is, if they choose to help us).
MrDresden 2y ago
I can speak to the situation you mentioned, as it happened twice. However almost no money had to be thrown at the problem, and the outcome was the best that could have been wished for. I live in Europe where we generally have universal healthcare. Perhaps the author you responded to is also living in a similar situation? I for one would take the same view as them. Work to live, and try only to do meaningful work. Life really is too short and fragile not to.
- self_awareness 2y ago
  I guess "universal healthcare" works in your country. But generally "universal healthcare" has treated my grandmother for sleep problems, but later when she died they figured out that the reason was intestine cancer. No doctor gave a sh*t that day. With money and private healthcare this could be avoided. My mother when visiting a "universal healthcare" doctor (queues are several months long) for digestion problems AND having a genetic history of cancer was given Xanax for depression. She fortunately tossed out the receipt for it after leaving the doctor office, because she's not stupid, certainly not depressed. So I think mentioning a mythical "universal healthcare" in my direction doesn't have the outcome you'd like it to have. Even more, it kind of proves my point, that you don't need money if everything goes well. You need it when things go to sh*t.
  - hhjinks 2y ago
    Why do you think private healthcare would give you a better answer? You accepted the first answer the jniversal healthcare system gave you. Do you have any reason to believe you wouldn't accept that answer if given by a private clinic?
    - self_awareness 2y ago
      Money + private healthcare gives you options. You can go to different doctors several times a week to get a possibly different diagnosis. It costs money, so having it is a prerequisite. But giving money acts as a motivator here, because doctors want money. In "universal healthcare", you can only go to a doctor once, or two times a year. Because the waiting queues are so long sometimes. And even if you change the doctor, the previous diagnosis will be in the same system, so if the doctor will get lazy, they'll just repeat the diagnosis. There's no motivator here (well, during communist times, a popular form of motivator was a "present" for doctor, so people found ways to motivate doctors).
madrox 2y ago
I'm not sure what kind of luck you're talking about. I'm not "post-money" and have to work for a living. I've never gotten a startup exit. I am well compensated the way someone with 25 years of work experience would be. I don't know about 30, but I've had this stance for the last 15 or so. I'm now pushing 45. I've had my fair share of family cancers and health crises. I've seen loved ones pass. And it's those people that are in my head when I think about my world view and shape my views on engineering management. So yeah, my advice to young adults would be (and has been) "plan for waking up one day and finding that work isn't all that important anymore and have a diversification strategy. The real startups are the friends we made along the way."

djtango 2y ago

Could you help me explore your view a bit more? Parent's advice is about favouring team and striving to be an enabler/multiplier rather than sweating over individual perfection of craft. It's a fairly common conclusion that some people arrive at. What are you contrasting that to? How does that relate to money problems and health problems? Is becoming a multiplier mutually exclusive from chasing financial success in your opinion? EDIT to elaborate on the concept of a multiplier. Say you can become a mythical 10x engineer or you can become a mentor. If you can mentor 5 normal engineers from 1x to 2x then you've now got 10x engineering and the org also has reduced bus factor. What about if those 5 2x engineers can bring another 25 0.5x engineers up to 1x engineers. Suddenly your org can become much more than a single 10x engineer can accomplish. This is quite spurious and 9 mothers can't have a baby in 1 month but it's a useful mental model for the value of individual contribution vs coaching/managing. In reality while people like to balk at the idea of the 10x engineer, the truth is there are probably 100x and 1000x engineers out there. Von Neumann is probably a 1000x or more. Linus and Page&Brin are probably at least a 100x etc - those multiples are made up, power laws make numbers go big

self_awareness 2y ago
I never had the pleasure of working with a manager that cared about me, nor I had contact with any other form of a "multipler" person, other than my parents. So I don't think I'm a good candidate for discussion in this subject, because obviously I won't really know what I'm writing about, and I'm certainly not knowledgable about what you care about. I only had the impression that the OP tells his subordinates that "they shouldn't oversweat, do some meaningful stuff but remember it won't really matter in the end". This is while working for a company that was created by a person who has probably worked their ass off, and maybe even sacrificed their private life for pursuing a dream of having a large company. All I'm saying is that money, success, power, connections are so important in life that they give happiness even for other people. If we're poor, then where do we go for help? To those who are richer or more powerful. They enable our happiness in our time of need (that is, if they choose to help us).

MrDresden 2y ago

I can speak to the situation you mentioned, as it happened twice. However almost no money had to be thrown at the problem, and the outcome was the best that could have been wished for. I live in Europe where we generally have universal healthcare. Perhaps the author you responded to is also living in a similar situation? I for one would take the same view as them. Work to live, and try only to do meaningful work. Life really is too short and fragile not to.

self_awareness 2y ago
I guess "universal healthcare" works in your country. But generally "universal healthcare" has treated my grandmother for sleep problems, but later when she died they figured out that the reason was intestine cancer. No doctor gave a sh*t that day. With money and private healthcare this could be avoided. My mother when visiting a "universal healthcare" doctor (queues are several months long) for digestion problems AND having a genetic history of cancer was given Xanax for depression. She fortunately tossed out the receipt for it after leaving the doctor office, because she's not stupid, certainly not depressed. So I think mentioning a mythical "universal healthcare" in my direction doesn't have the outcome you'd like it to have. Even more, it kind of proves my point, that you don't need money if everything goes well. You need it when things go to sh*t.
- hhjinks 2y ago
  Why do you think private healthcare would give you a better answer? You accepted the first answer the jniversal healthcare system gave you. Do you have any reason to believe you wouldn't accept that answer if given by a private clinic?
  - self_awareness 2y ago
    Money + private healthcare gives you options. You can go to different doctors several times a week to get a possibly different diagnosis. It costs money, so having it is a prerequisite. But giving money acts as a motivator here, because doctors want money. In "universal healthcare", you can only go to a doctor once, or two times a year. Because the waiting queues are so long sometimes. And even if you change the doctor, the previous diagnosis will be in the same system, so if the doctor will get lazy, they'll just repeat the diagnosis. There's no motivator here (well, during communist times, a popular form of motivator was a "present" for doctor, so people found ways to motivate doctors).

madrox 2y ago

I'm not sure what kind of luck you're talking about. I'm not "post-money" and have to work for a living. I've never gotten a startup exit. I am well compensated the way someone with 25 years of work experience would be. I don't know about 30, but I've had this stance for the last 15 or so. I'm now pushing 45. I've had my fair share of family cancers and health crises. I've seen loved ones pass. And it's those people that are in my head when I think about my world view and shape my views on engineering management. So yeah, my advice to young adults would be (and has been) "plan for waking up one day and finding that work isn't all that important anymore and have a diversification strategy. The real startups are the friends we made along the way."