8 ms·

On the trail of my identity thief

118 points by signa11 2y ago

mrslave 2y ago
Article on original site that incidentally includes a lot less JavaScript https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/15/magazine/on-the-trail-of-my-identity-thief/ https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/15/magazine/on-the-trail...
- yumraj 2y ago
  Perhaps @dang can replace the URL with this one.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
ggm 2y ago
The article also made PGN's "risk" list, which can throw up interesting discussion on a longer baseline.
teeray 2y ago
Charming how the bank just skates through this whole thing with a little halo over its head. They should be liable for their own failure to authenticate the customer. Immediately restore the $5k, then they chase after the thief.
- marssaxman 2y ago
  That's almost exactly what my credit union did. After I filled out the paperwork, they sent me out the door with some walking-around money (the thief had emptied my checking account), and the rest was returned within a couple days. I did nothing further; a fraud investigator called me up a couple of months later to ask a few questions, but by that point they already knew who the culprit was. For this and many other reasons, I will never use a commercial bank again, if I can possibly avoid it.
- doix 2y ago
  This is what I don't understand when it comes to identify theft. Why is it the customers problem and not the companies?
  - washadjeffmad 2y ago
    I've always agreed with David Mitchell's take: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/25/identity-theft-is-daylight-robbery-banks https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/25/identi...
    - stevekemp 2y ago
      And here's the sketch referenced in the article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
    - BLKNSLVR 2y ago
      This should be the first comment on any "identity theft" story to change the onus of proof narrative amongst the populous.
  - namdnay 2y ago
    the term itself "identity theft" is part of the propaganda - instead of calling it "bank fraud" suddenly it's my problem because my identity has been stolen? no it hasn't, I'm still me. it's not my problem a bank got scammed by someone pretending to be me
    - ako 2y ago
      Identity theft framing helps customers understand they have a responsibility in using these systems in a secure way. If you call it bank fraud, customers don’t see their part in the responsibility, and become careless, increasing the chance of bank fraud,
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- mindslight 2y ago
  Seriously. And this is the author writing her own story. You'd think that after two years she'd have done a little reflection to realize that there are two instances of fraud here. The mule deceiving the bank into giving them the cash, and the bank deceiving the author into thinking the bank owes her $5k less. Align the incentives and all the bloviating about fraud "czars" and difficulties of prosecuting non-violent crimes just falls away. I've got to wonder how much people's broken understanding of these situations is an extension of that same old mistaken belief that banks hold your money in their safe or something. Notice how she's continually going on about "my money". Whereas actually your bank balance is merely a debt the bank owes you, which cannot have been altered by the bank being defrauded. Any more than a cursory one or two business days to fix her account ledger is unacceptable. If after 60, 90, or however many days the bank cares to spend investigating it turns out that the account owner lied when disputing the original transaction, that would be its own fraud and can be prosecuted post-facto the same as anything else.
  - celdon25 2y ago
    > You'd think that after two years she'd have done a little reflection to realize that there are two instances of fraud here. Three if you consider that New York let the criminal walk and go on the lam without posting any bail, due to a 2020 (presumably late 2020) 'law' From the post: > The bail reform law, which took effect in New York in 2020, eliminated the requirement for defendants to put up cash bail for most misdemeanors and nonviolent felony charges. It was meant to limit incarceration of defendants in New York who couldn’t afford to get out on bail while their cases play out, according to the New York Civil Liberties Union. The nonprofit’s website says reform has been essential to “upholding due process, advancing racial justice, and protecting public health” during the pandemic.
    - mathieuh 2y ago
      Making people pay for bail is an almost exclusively USA thing. Doesn't seem to be causing many problems in the rest of the world to assess bail on criteria other than "is able to afford it".
    - 2y ago
- foresto 2y ago
  Obligatory Mitchell and Webb sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
- worldwidelies 2y ago
  Because banks are as thick than thieves.
- RecycledEle 2y ago
  Interesting idea. Could we write laws that require banks to both reimburse the money stolen and to either catch the criminal or to pay more? I think the banks would just deny that a crime occurred. As tempting as it is, I have to be against it for now
  - teeray 2y ago
    Imagine you owe $15k to a hospital, and someone knocks on your door saying “hi, I’m from the hospital, can you pay us $5k?” You, in your naivety, head up to your mattress, get $5k in cash, then pay them. Turns out, they are not from the hospital. What happens if you say to the hospital, “unfortunately your identity was stolen, and now I only owe you the $10k left.” Given bank deposits are debts owed to you, this is exactly what the bank is doing to you.
SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
Interesting takes… Sees the issue with bail reform right away, then wishes we had more regulations like the UK.
OutOfHere 2y ago
Never keep more money in your checking account than you can afford to lose. Based on my reading of the news, it often gets stolen. There is however the question of a potential negative balance. For this, do not allow overdraft protection beyond a small amount. Also, don't have a linked account such as a savings account that gets used for potential overdrafts.
- rPlayer6554 2y ago
  Then where do you put it?? Your couch??
  - secondcoming 2y ago
    Have several bank accounts. Keep the bare minimum in your day to day account, and higher sums in the other ones.
  - englishrookie 2y ago
    Amusingly, there are languages where the word for bank and couch are the same: bank (Dutch).
  - ozim 2y ago
    You know you can have more than one bank account. You can have separate account that doesn’t have any cards attached. Give that account number to your employer and then when you need transfer amounts to account with debit/credit cards.
    - OutOfHere 2y ago
      With regard to a separate account, I would consider having one of these, in order of most preferred to least preferred: 1. An investment account to move money into, even if it's not invested. 2. A savings account at a second bank from which transactions or even withdrawals cannot be done, only transfers to your checking account at the first bank can be done. 3. A CD (Certificate of Deposit) at a bank, although this locks up your funds for the designated time. Any checking account leaves you most at risk.
skipkey 2y ago
My wife and I had a somewhat similar thing happen, one week before our wedding. She had a debit card declined at Starbucks. Someone had printed a business check with our account number, made out to a name that matched a dead person on the sex crimes registry, and then someone had cashed that check at a bank in New Jersey. The check was for over $11k, and left about $20 in the account. Now, we never left that much money in the account generally but we had transferred some in to settle with the various vendors and for spending cash on the honeymoon. The good news was that Chase saw it as fraudulent immediately and the money was back in our account in less than 48 hours, and they put a few thousand in before then so we could travel.
- bradley13 2y ago
  Security is hard, in whatever field. Customers do want to be able to get service at their bank, without jumping through crazy hoops. That said, bank security in the US is generally awful. Checks should not exist - they are a concept out of another era. Actually, in the US, just having someone's account number enables you to withdraw money from their account. That is just nuts. By now, all money transfers should be electronic and immediate. Where I am, we use the "Twint" service. Want to pay in a shop? Scan a QR code off the card reader, then click ok. Want to send money to a private person? Select them from your contacts, enter the amount, click ok. Transfers are completed in seconds, which also eliminates the issue of bouncing checks.
  - ghssds 2y ago
    So, no privacy?
    - bradley13 2y ago
      Huh? If you want anonymous transactions, you won't be using checks either. That's what cash is for.
ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
The web of trust that we have built is the best we could do in the past. But now we would have technology to get rid of all the headaches it creates. On a blockchain, we could have a contract that says "To move more than $X of my money per week, I need to agree by signing with my private key.". So the bank can only mess up $X per week. And if I lose my private key, I still can get the money out in chunks of $X per week.
- namdnay 2y ago
  > And if I lose my private key, I still can get the money out in chunks of $X per week So the 5% of people every year who are going to lose their private key can no longer buy a house or car for the rest of their life?
  - ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
    The bank can still send $X per week to wherever it wants. So if one loses their key, they would tell the bank to transfer the money in amounts of $X per week to a new account. If they have set $X to 2% of their savings, they would have to wait 50 weeks until they can use the full sum again.
  - lmz 2y ago
    Well they can trickle their money to a new account and use that new account for the ~10 yrs until they lose their key again.
- evanb 2y ago
  My non-blockchain bank already puts such a limit (amount electronically transferred per day). If you need to move more than that you've got to do more than just use the website.
  - ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
    That does not protect you from incompetence or malice of the bank. Your bank is still a single point of failure. In the article, the bank claims: Someone had actually come into the bank and spoken to a teller, presented a driver’s license, and then correctly answered some authentication questions to validate the account. The bank does not claim that someone just "used the website".
dgoldstein0 2y ago
I had a similar situation with bank a few years ago, not identity theft but rather some checks stolen out of the mail and cashed by the third party, and didn't realize it for a few months (so it was being the easy ach reversal point). I tried to escalate within the bank, must have talked with tier 2 support a dozen times. What worked was to file CFPB (consumer financial protection bureau) complaints against both banks involved. At that point I got to talk to executive support, who is responsible for handling such complaints, and was able to get the two banks to talk to each other. Should've done that about 6 months or so sooner.
- saxonww 2y ago
  patio11 (bitsaboutmoney) invests in the banks he uses, and then is able to call investor relations when he's having trouble with that bank. https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/banking-in-very-uncertain-times/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/banking-in-very-uncer...
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    Wait, wait, wait... if I buy a share in Google can I get support for my Gmail?!
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    That sounds like an interesting practical workaround for certain support issues, yet at the same time it seems... I dunno, like some sort of tiny indictment of the ethics of modern capitalism, the idea that justice is only available to owners. I could easily see it being worked into something satirical in the style of Snow Crash, where there's a loyalty program in silver/gold/platinum, and then an undisclosed super-tier of investor ruby, investor diamond...
- patio11 2y ago
  For some context on why this sort of side channel is routinely effective in banking but the front door is frequently not, see: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/seeing-like-a-bank/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/seeing-like-a-bank/
geek_at 2y ago
I had something similar happen to me [1]. I won 500$ Apple gift cards in a sysadmin contest but they were for the US only and I (from Austria) wasn't able to spend them so I tried to sell them for about a year and then found someone who tricked me and stole the cards. Over a year I tracked them down and in the end got my money back by sending facebook messages to his mother and brother. Found out his real name because some school friend of him had posted a screenshot of a windowed game which facebook open in the background where you could see his friendlist. Crazy stuff. Even BBC wrote about it later [2] Fun fact: Since that article aired (8 years ago) I'm still getting 2 to 5 messages per week from random people who ask me to track down their scammers too [1] https://blog.haschek.at/2016/how-a-scammer-stole-500-dollars-from-me/ https://blog.haschek.at/2016/how-a-scammer-stole-500-dollars... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37348014 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37348014
- StrauXX 2y ago
  I love how you named the scammer ungustly in your blog. He was quite an Ungustl :)
  - geek_at 2y ago
    haha true.. although not far from his real username which was "unjustly" should have thought about that username before trading with him though
nox101 2y ago
I'm curious what the solutions are. People, including myself, feel this should legally be the bank's problem. Someone pretended to be the account owner and the bank gave them money. That seems pretty clearly the bank at fault But, let's say the laws got fixed and it became the bank's fault. Would there be un-intended consequences or only good ones? I'd expect banks to maybe get rid of checks. Or, require every check to be approved when received. You send a check, the check gets deposited, the bank pings you (email, sms, app) .. did you write this check? Or maybe something else. If I understand correctly, some countries (Estonia?, Singapore?) when you use a credit card, the bank requires some form of 2 factor. I've seen that once in a while with USA cards, usually only when ordering something abroad. In Japan some banks require a 2 factor calculator that generates codes. No idea if that's prevented much fraud.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Boltgolt 2y ago
  A second factor (like 3-D Secure) is required by EU directive in the whole block for online payments. For in person payments having access to the card and knowing the code already satisfies the 2 factors, and checks are extremely rare and have been for decades
  - nox101 2y ago
    So you sign up for a subscription and every month you must use a 2nd factor to secure it? Do you have amazon or equivalent? Does every time you order you have to second factor or do you just have to do it once when you sign up for an account?
    - m1n7 2y ago
      nah you only need to do it once for subscriptions, but you can revoke access. with other purchases it depends on the site. some ask you every time and others don't. i'd assume charges in the same range don't have to be approved again, but idk how it works exactly
jstummbillig 2y ago
Shout outs to diverse value generation, by people going through a big issue,investing huge chunks of life time and then dispersing knowledge by doing write ups (which are not easy to do in general but it gets harder the nastier the topic). I have deep empathy for how costly these experiences are, that I can then just learn from in 5-10 mins. I hope that in the future more of the bad stuff can be avoided upfront but in the meantime I think this is wonderful and something to foster (which I should remind myself of and participate in more often).
datpiff 2y ago
“Forget the fake IDs adolescents used to get into bars,” says Georgia State’s David Maimon, who is also head of fraud insights at SentiLink, a company that works with institutions across the United States to support and solve their fraud and risk issues. “Nowadays fraudsters are using sophisticated software and capable printers to create virtually impossible-to-detect fake IDs.” They’re able to create synthetic identities, combining legitimate personal information, such as a name and date of birth, with a nine-digit number that either looks like a Social Security number or is a real, stolen one. That ID can then be used to open financial accounts, apply for a bank or car loan, or for some other dodgy purpose that could devastate their victims’ financial lives." Does this seem a little far-fetched? The reporter lost $5000 - a lot of money! - but if it required a high-tech impossible-to-detect fake ID, layers of shadowy criminal gangs and cash mules it seems like there won't be a huge profit left. It seems more likely that this kind of fraud is much less sophisticated, and is exactly the same technology used by adolescents to get into bars. This feels like another argument that this is an unsolvable problem, and banks are helpless against mysterious dark web hackers. Dive bars are held reasonably accountable over verifying identity, it seems crazy that we accept that banks can't/won't do the same.
tromp 2y ago
> On April 18, 2023, according to a police report, she’d gone into a Citizens Bank branch in New Rochelle in Westchester County, presented an ID with another woman’s name, and walked away with $3,500. A bank employee had become suspicious and called the account owner to confirm she’d made the withdrawal herself. She hadn’t. What confuses me is that the bank has my photo ID already. So when someone comes in to make a large cash withdrawal using a fake ID with my name on it, doesn't the teller see my face on screen to match? I find it hard to believe that the thiefs managed to find a mule that looks exactly like the victim.
- wildrhythms 2y ago
  So she walked into a bank with nothing but an ID and walked out with thousands in cash? I did not realize someone could make a withdraw like that without a debit card (or a check, or some other bank authenticated mechanism).
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    I had poor credit with LloydsTSB at one time (due to an error on their behalf) and they terminated all my debit cards, credit cards and ATM access. They would only allow me to withdraw cash using my passport at a teller window for about a year.
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    There's an incisive Mitchell & Webb audio sketch on this, where banks with bad security are using the phrase to shift blame onto consumers. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
  - tingletech 2y ago
    I lost my wallet once and I was able to write a counter check for cash while I waited for my new ATM card to come. That was in the early 2000s, I did have my passport however. I also had the key to my safety deposit box, but they didn't check that.
- tingletech 2y ago
RecycledEle 2y ago
The author is a sucker! The criminal pretends to be injured after cops arrest her while she is running from them, and she composes herself so she looks like a victim. LOL! Then the criminal gets the victim to feel sorry for her. Then she gets released almost immediately, so she can do it again! This is why we used to hang criminals on the day of the trial.
neonate 2y ago
https://archive.ph/KG95Q https://archive.ph/KG95Q https://web.archive.org/web/20240520073631/https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/an-identity-thief-stole-5000-from-me-i-spent-two-years-tracking-down-how/ar-BB1mqh0b https://web.archive.org/web/20240520073631/https://www.msn.c...
1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
Works where archive.ph is blocked, no Javascript needed: x=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/an-identity-thief-stole-5000-from-me-i-spent-two-years-tracking-down-how/ar-BB1mqh0b x=https://assets.msn.com/content/view/v2/Detail/en-in/${x##*-} (echo "<meta charset=utf-8>";tnftp -4o'|grep -o "<p>.*</p>"' $x|tr -d '\134') > 1.htm firefox ./1.htm links 1.htm
jdkee 2y ago
It is shameful who the banks have turned their authentication problem into a problem for their customers, branded as "identity theft".
droopyEyelids 2y ago
The detour into anti-bail-reform talking points was a sour note in this article. It sucks that the criminal skipped bail, so without bail reform that would have only been allowed if she passed a certain threshold of wealth. Thats not mentioned because its clearly not a better outcome.
- criddell 2y ago
  I didn’t read it as anti-bail-reform at all. She included the part about bail reform working but unfortunately Deborah wasn’t one of them.
ghssds 2y ago
Nobody stole her identity. Someone stole the bank and then the bank used the "stolen identity" scam to somehow put the burden on an uninvolved third party. Things will get better when the customers realize they aren't the victims of the thieves. Banks are the victims of the thieves. Customers are actually the banks' victims.
- ghusto 2y ago
  Glad to hear this sentiment here. This kind of thing has been framed from day 1 very carefully by banks. Don’t fall for it.
- sangnoir 2y ago
  I was mildly surprised when the article quoted a senior at the bank framing the situation as a feeble, lone teller vs a well-oiled theft industry - as if the teller doesn't have resources of a multi-billion-dollar corporation - perhaps they don't and it was an inadvertent confession. In that case, we don't need a "fraud czar", we need laws that make fraud the banks' problem by forcing them to make clients whole when the bank is defrauded by misrepresentation.
djoldman 2y ago
What happens if you sue the bank?
- criddell 2y ago
  Sometimes you win and if the bank ignores you, you can show up with a deputy and seize bank equipment from a branch. https://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclosed-angry-homeowner-bofa/story?id=13775638 https://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclo...
hiddencost 2y ago
My mom was subject to a very similar scam recently, so this hits close to hone. But this was secretly an article about bail reform, trying to paint a sympathetic picture and then redirect your anger at bail reform. I hate that. Bail reform is a good, wise policy that works, and no amount of dishonest articles like this will change that.
- qingcharles 2y ago
  Bail reform is absolutely a good idea. Previous bail issues resulted in rich people with very serious charges being able to bond out, while poor people with shoplifting charges remained in custody for years awaiting trial.
noja 2y ago
Obligatory Mitchell & Webb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E

118 points by signa11 2y ago

Article on original site that incidentally includes a lot less JavaScript https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/15/magazine/on-the-trail-of-my-identity-thief/ https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/15/magazine/on-the-trail...

yumraj 2y ago
Perhaps @dang can replace the URL with this one.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

ggm 2y ago

The article also made PGN's "risk" list, which can throw up interesting discussion on a longer baseline.

teeray 2y ago

Charming how the bank just skates through this whole thing with a little halo over its head. They should be liable for their own failure to authenticate the customer. Immediately restore the $5k, then they chase after the thief.

marssaxman 2y ago
That's almost exactly what my credit union did. After I filled out the paperwork, they sent me out the door with some walking-around money (the thief had emptied my checking account), and the rest was returned within a couple days. I did nothing further; a fraud investigator called me up a couple of months later to ask a few questions, but by that point they already knew who the culprit was. For this and many other reasons, I will never use a commercial bank again, if I can possibly avoid it.
doix 2y ago
This is what I don't understand when it comes to identify theft. Why is it the customers problem and not the companies?
- washadjeffmad 2y ago
  I've always agreed with David Mitchell's take: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/25/identity-theft-is-daylight-robbery-banks https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/25/identi...
  - stevekemp 2y ago
    And here's the sketch referenced in the article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
  - BLKNSLVR 2y ago
    This should be the first comment on any "identity theft" story to change the onus of proof narrative amongst the populous.
- namdnay 2y ago
  the term itself "identity theft" is part of the propaganda - instead of calling it "bank fraud" suddenly it's my problem because my identity has been stolen? no it hasn't, I'm still me. it's not my problem a bank got scammed by someone pretending to be me
  - ako 2y ago
    Identity theft framing helps customers understand they have a responsibility in using these systems in a secure way. If you call it bank fraud, customers don’t see their part in the responsibility, and become careless, increasing the chance of bank fraud,
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
mindslight 2y ago
Seriously. And this is the author writing her own story. You'd think that after two years she'd have done a little reflection to realize that there are two instances of fraud here. The mule deceiving the bank into giving them the cash, and the bank deceiving the author into thinking the bank owes her $5k less. Align the incentives and all the bloviating about fraud "czars" and difficulties of prosecuting non-violent crimes just falls away. I've got to wonder how much people's broken understanding of these situations is an extension of that same old mistaken belief that banks hold your money in their safe or something. Notice how she's continually going on about "my money". Whereas actually your bank balance is merely a debt the bank owes you, which cannot have been altered by the bank being defrauded. Any more than a cursory one or two business days to fix her account ledger is unacceptable. If after 60, 90, or however many days the bank cares to spend investigating it turns out that the account owner lied when disputing the original transaction, that would be its own fraud and can be prosecuted post-facto the same as anything else.
- celdon25 2y ago
  > You'd think that after two years she'd have done a little reflection to realize that there are two instances of fraud here. Three if you consider that New York let the criminal walk and go on the lam without posting any bail, due to a 2020 (presumably late 2020) 'law' From the post: > The bail reform law, which took effect in New York in 2020, eliminated the requirement for defendants to put up cash bail for most misdemeanors and nonviolent felony charges. It was meant to limit incarceration of defendants in New York who couldn’t afford to get out on bail while their cases play out, according to the New York Civil Liberties Union. The nonprofit’s website says reform has been essential to “upholding due process, advancing racial justice, and protecting public health” during the pandemic.
  - mathieuh 2y ago
    Making people pay for bail is an almost exclusively USA thing. Doesn't seem to be causing many problems in the rest of the world to assess bail on criteria other than "is able to afford it".
  - 2y ago
foresto 2y ago
Obligatory Mitchell and Webb sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
worldwidelies 2y ago
Because banks are as thick than thieves.
RecycledEle 2y ago
Interesting idea. Could we write laws that require banks to both reimburse the money stolen and to either catch the criminal or to pay more? I think the banks would just deny that a crime occurred. As tempting as it is, I have to be against it for now
- teeray 2y ago
  Imagine you owe $15k to a hospital, and someone knocks on your door saying “hi, I’m from the hospital, can you pay us $5k?” You, in your naivety, head up to your mattress, get $5k in cash, then pay them. Turns out, they are not from the hospital. What happens if you say to the hospital, “unfortunately your identity was stolen, and now I only owe you the $10k left.” Given bank deposits are debts owed to you, this is exactly what the bank is doing to you.

SV_BubbleTime 2y ago

Interesting takes… Sees the issue with bail reform right away, then wishes we had more regulations like the UK.

OutOfHere 2y ago

Never keep more money in your checking account than you can afford to lose. Based on my reading of the news, it often gets stolen. There is however the question of a potential negative balance. For this, do not allow overdraft protection beyond a small amount. Also, don't have a linked account such as a savings account that gets used for potential overdrafts.

rPlayer6554 2y ago
Then where do you put it?? Your couch??
- secondcoming 2y ago
  Have several bank accounts. Keep the bare minimum in your day to day account, and higher sums in the other ones.
- englishrookie 2y ago
  Amusingly, there are languages where the word for bank and couch are the same: bank (Dutch).
- ozim 2y ago
  You know you can have more than one bank account. You can have separate account that doesn’t have any cards attached. Give that account number to your employer and then when you need transfer amounts to account with debit/credit cards.
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    With regard to a separate account, I would consider having one of these, in order of most preferred to least preferred: 1. An investment account to move money into, even if it's not invested. 2. A savings account at a second bank from which transactions or even withdrawals cannot be done, only transfers to your checking account at the first bank can be done. 3. A CD (Certificate of Deposit) at a bank, although this locks up your funds for the designated time. Any checking account leaves you most at risk.

skipkey 2y ago

My wife and I had a somewhat similar thing happen, one week before our wedding. She had a debit card declined at Starbucks. Someone had printed a business check with our account number, made out to a name that matched a dead person on the sex crimes registry, and then someone had cashed that check at a bank in New Jersey. The check was for over $11k, and left about $20 in the account. Now, we never left that much money in the account generally but we had transferred some in to settle with the various vendors and for spending cash on the honeymoon. The good news was that Chase saw it as fraudulent immediately and the money was back in our account in less than 48 hours, and they put a few thousand in before then so we could travel.

bradley13 2y ago
Security is hard, in whatever field. Customers do want to be able to get service at their bank, without jumping through crazy hoops. That said, bank security in the US is generally awful. Checks should not exist - they are a concept out of another era. Actually, in the US, just having someone's account number enables you to withdraw money from their account. That is just nuts. By now, all money transfers should be electronic and immediate. Where I am, we use the "Twint" service. Want to pay in a shop? Scan a QR code off the card reader, then click ok. Want to send money to a private person? Select them from your contacts, enter the amount, click ok. Transfers are completed in seconds, which also eliminates the issue of bouncing checks.
- ghssds 2y ago
  So, no privacy?
  - bradley13 2y ago
    Huh? If you want anonymous transactions, you won't be using checks either. That's what cash is for.

ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago

The web of trust that we have built is the best we could do in the past. But now we would have technology to get rid of all the headaches it creates. On a blockchain, we could have a contract that says "To move more than $X of my money per week, I need to agree by signing with my private key.". So the bank can only mess up $X per week. And if I lose my private key, I still can get the money out in chunks of $X per week.

namdnay 2y ago
> And if I lose my private key, I still can get the money out in chunks of $X per week So the 5% of people every year who are going to lose their private key can no longer buy a house or car for the rest of their life?
- ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
  The bank can still send $X per week to wherever it wants. So if one loses their key, they would tell the bank to transfer the money in amounts of $X per week to a new account. If they have set $X to 2% of their savings, they would have to wait 50 weeks until they can use the full sum again.
- lmz 2y ago
  Well they can trickle their money to a new account and use that new account for the ~10 yrs until they lose their key again.
evanb 2y ago
My non-blockchain bank already puts such a limit (amount electronically transferred per day). If you need to move more than that you've got to do more than just use the website.
- ArtTimeInvestor 2y ago
  That does not protect you from incompetence or malice of the bank. Your bank is still a single point of failure. In the article, the bank claims: Someone had actually come into the bank and spoken to a teller, presented a driver’s license, and then correctly answered some authentication questions to validate the account. The bank does not claim that someone just "used the website".

dgoldstein0 2y ago

I had a similar situation with bank a few years ago, not identity theft but rather some checks stolen out of the mail and cashed by the third party, and didn't realize it for a few months (so it was being the easy ach reversal point). I tried to escalate within the bank, must have talked with tier 2 support a dozen times. What worked was to file CFPB (consumer financial protection bureau) complaints against both banks involved. At that point I got to talk to executive support, who is responsible for handling such complaints, and was able to get the two banks to talk to each other. Should've done that about 6 months or so sooner.

saxonww 2y ago
patio11 (bitsaboutmoney) invests in the banks he uses, and then is able to call investor relations when he's having trouble with that bank. https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/banking-in-very-uncertain-times/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/banking-in-very-uncer...
- qingcharles 2y ago
  Wait, wait, wait... if I buy a share in Google can I get support for my Gmail?!
- Terr_ 2y ago
  That sounds like an interesting practical workaround for certain support issues, yet at the same time it seems... I dunno, like some sort of tiny indictment of the ethics of modern capitalism, the idea that justice is only available to owners. I could easily see it being worked into something satirical in the style of Snow Crash, where there's a loyalty program in silver/gold/platinum, and then an undisclosed super-tier of investor ruby, investor diamond...
patio11 2y ago
For some context on why this sort of side channel is routinely effective in banking but the front door is frequently not, see: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/seeing-like-a-bank/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/seeing-like-a-bank/

geek_at 2y ago

I had something similar happen to me [1]. I won 500$ Apple gift cards in a sysadmin contest but they were for the US only and I (from Austria) wasn't able to spend them so I tried to sell them for about a year and then found someone who tricked me and stole the cards. Over a year I tracked them down and in the end got my money back by sending facebook messages to his mother and brother. Found out his real name because some school friend of him had posted a screenshot of a windowed game which facebook open in the background where you could see his friendlist. Crazy stuff. Even BBC wrote about it later [2] Fun fact: Since that article aired (8 years ago) I'm still getting 2 to 5 messages per week from random people who ask me to track down their scammers too [1] https://blog.haschek.at/2016/how-a-scammer-stole-500-dollars-from-me/ https://blog.haschek.at/2016/how-a-scammer-stole-500-dollars... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37348014 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37348014

StrauXX 2y ago
I love how you named the scammer ungustly in your blog. He was quite an Ungustl :)
- geek_at 2y ago
  haha true.. although not far from his real username which was "unjustly" should have thought about that username before trading with him though

nox101 2y ago

I'm curious what the solutions are. People, including myself, feel this should legally be the bank's problem. Someone pretended to be the account owner and the bank gave them money. That seems pretty clearly the bank at fault But, let's say the laws got fixed and it became the bank's fault. Would there be un-intended consequences or only good ones? I'd expect banks to maybe get rid of checks. Or, require every check to be approved when received. You send a check, the check gets deposited, the bank pings you (email, sms, app) .. did you write this check? Or maybe something else. If I understand correctly, some countries (Estonia?, Singapore?) when you use a credit card, the bank requires some form of 2 factor. I've seen that once in a while with USA cards, usually only when ordering something abroad. In Japan some banks require a 2 factor calculator that generates codes. No idea if that's prevented much fraud.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Boltgolt 2y ago
A second factor (like 3-D Secure) is required by EU directive in the whole block for online payments. For in person payments having access to the card and knowing the code already satisfies the 2 factors, and checks are extremely rare and have been for decades
- nox101 2y ago
  So you sign up for a subscription and every month you must use a 2nd factor to secure it? Do you have amazon or equivalent? Does every time you order you have to second factor or do you just have to do it once when you sign up for an account?
  - m1n7 2y ago
    nah you only need to do it once for subscriptions, but you can revoke access. with other purchases it depends on the site. some ask you every time and others don't. i'd assume charges in the same range don't have to be approved again, but idk how it works exactly

jstummbillig 2y ago

Shout outs to diverse value generation, by people going through a big issue,investing huge chunks of life time and then dispersing knowledge by doing write ups (which are not easy to do in general but it gets harder the nastier the topic). I have deep empathy for how costly these experiences are, that I can then just learn from in 5-10 mins. I hope that in the future more of the bad stuff can be avoided upfront but in the meantime I think this is wonderful and something to foster (which I should remind myself of and participate in more often).

datpiff 2y ago

“Forget the fake IDs adolescents used to get into bars,” says Georgia State’s David Maimon, who is also head of fraud insights at SentiLink, a company that works with institutions across the United States to support and solve their fraud and risk issues. “Nowadays fraudsters are using sophisticated software and capable printers to create virtually impossible-to-detect fake IDs.” They’re able to create synthetic identities, combining legitimate personal information, such as a name and date of birth, with a nine-digit number that either looks like a Social Security number or is a real, stolen one. That ID can then be used to open financial accounts, apply for a bank or car loan, or for some other dodgy purpose that could devastate their victims’ financial lives." Does this seem a little far-fetched? The reporter lost $5000 - a lot of money! - but if it required a high-tech impossible-to-detect fake ID, layers of shadowy criminal gangs and cash mules it seems like there won't be a huge profit left. It seems more likely that this kind of fraud is much less sophisticated, and is exactly the same technology used by adolescents to get into bars. This feels like another argument that this is an unsolvable problem, and banks are helpless against mysterious dark web hackers. Dive bars are held reasonably accountable over verifying identity, it seems crazy that we accept that banks can't/won't do the same.

tromp 2y ago

> On April 18, 2023, according to a police report, she’d gone into a Citizens Bank branch in New Rochelle in Westchester County, presented an ID with another woman’s name, and walked away with $3,500. A bank employee had become suspicious and called the account owner to confirm she’d made the withdrawal herself. She hadn’t. What confuses me is that the bank has my photo ID already. So when someone comes in to make a large cash withdrawal using a fake ID with my name on it, doesn't the teller see my face on screen to match? I find it hard to believe that the thiefs managed to find a mule that looks exactly like the victim.

wildrhythms 2y ago
So she walked into a bank with nothing but an ID and walked out with thousands in cash? I did not realize someone could make a withdraw like that without a debit card (or a check, or some other bank authenticated mechanism).
- qingcharles 2y ago
  I had poor credit with LloydsTSB at one time (due to an error on their behalf) and they terminated all my debit cards, credit cards and ATM access. They would only allow me to withdraw cash using my passport at a teller window for about a year.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  There's an incisive Mitchell & Webb audio sketch on this, where banks with bad security are using the phrase to shift blame onto consumers. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
- tingletech 2y ago
  I lost my wallet once and I was able to write a counter check for cash while I waited for my new ATM card to come. That was in the early 2000s, I did have my passport however. I also had the key to my safety deposit box, but they didn't check that.
tingletech 2y ago

RecycledEle 2y ago

The author is a sucker! The criminal pretends to be injured after cops arrest her while she is running from them, and she composes herself so she looks like a victim. LOL! Then the criminal gets the victim to feel sorry for her. Then she gets released almost immediately, so she can do it again! This is why we used to hang criminals on the day of the trial.

neonate 2y ago

https://archive.ph/KG95Q https://archive.ph/KG95Q https://web.archive.org/web/20240520073631/https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/an-identity-thief-stole-5000-from-me-i-spent-two-years-tracking-down-how/ar-BB1mqh0b https://web.archive.org/web/20240520073631/https://www.msn.c...

1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago

Works where archive.ph is blocked, no Javascript needed: x=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/an-identity-thief-stole-5000-from-me-i-spent-two-years-tracking-down-how/ar-BB1mqh0b x=https://assets.msn.com/content/view/v2/Detail/en-in/${x##*-} (echo "<meta charset=utf-8>";tnftp -4o'|grep -o "<p>.*</p>"' $x|tr -d '\134') > 1.htm firefox ./1.htm links 1.htm

jdkee 2y ago

It is shameful who the banks have turned their authentication problem into a problem for their customers, branded as "identity theft".

droopyEyelids 2y ago

The detour into anti-bail-reform talking points was a sour note in this article. It sucks that the criminal skipped bail, so without bail reform that would have only been allowed if she passed a certain threshold of wealth. Thats not mentioned because its clearly not a better outcome.

criddell 2y ago
I didn’t read it as anti-bail-reform at all. She included the part about bail reform working but unfortunately Deborah wasn’t one of them.

ghssds 2y ago

Nobody stole her identity. Someone stole the bank and then the bank used the "stolen identity" scam to somehow put the burden on an uninvolved third party. Things will get better when the customers realize they aren't the victims of the thieves. Banks are the victims of the thieves. Customers are actually the banks' victims.

ghusto 2y ago
Glad to hear this sentiment here. This kind of thing has been framed from day 1 very carefully by banks. Don’t fall for it.
sangnoir 2y ago
I was mildly surprised when the article quoted a senior at the bank framing the situation as a feeble, lone teller vs a well-oiled theft industry - as if the teller doesn't have resources of a multi-billion-dollar corporation - perhaps they don't and it was an inadvertent confession. In that case, we don't need a "fraud czar", we need laws that make fraud the banks' problem by forcing them to make clients whole when the bank is defrauded by misrepresentation.

djoldman 2y ago

What happens if you sue the bank?

criddell 2y ago
Sometimes you win and if the bank ignores you, you can show up with a deputy and seize bank equipment from a branch. https://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclosed-angry-homeowner-bofa/story?id=13775638 https://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclo...

hiddencost 2y ago

My mom was subject to a very similar scam recently, so this hits close to hone. But this was secretly an article about bail reform, trying to paint a sympathetic picture and then redirect your anger at bail reform. I hate that. Bail reform is a good, wise policy that works, and no amount of dishonest articles like this will change that.

qingcharles 2y ago
Bail reform is absolutely a good idea. Previous bail issues resulted in rich people with very serious charges being able to bond out, while poor people with shoplifting charges remained in custody for years awaiting trial.

noja 2y ago

Obligatory Mitchell & Webb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E