4 ms·

>a liberarian argument where nobody is entitled to the fruits of your labor except for you There simply is no fruit which is the product of one's labor, whethe

>a liberarian argument where nobody is entitled to the fruits of your labor except for you There simply is no fruit which is the product of one's labor, whether it be one person or one enterprise. Any honest analysis must start here.

stirfish 2y ago
I don't know what you mean.
- readyman 2y ago
  We live in a society. All our knowledge and labor is dependent on prior knowledge and labor of our neighbors and those who came before us, also known as our society.
refurb 2y ago
Clearly falsifiable. If I harvest a random apple growing wild, that my labor alone. But I know where you’re going with that argument - everyone’s work is built upon someone else’s so…the government is entitled to all of it.
- readyman 2y ago
  >If I harvest a random apple growing wild, that my labor alone. Nonsense. It takes a village to raise a child, and the agricultural knowledge to harvest anything stands on the shoulders of approximately all of human history.
  - refurb 2y ago
    An apple growing wild on a tree? Please share the "agricultural knowledge" require to pluck a ripe, wild apple? No. Man can harvest nature with his own labor and profit from it. Alone, with only his own work. I know that fact burns a certain side of the political spectrum, but it's the truth.
    - readyman 2y ago
      Under capitalism, this is called theft.
- danaris 2y ago
  Who planted that apple tree? Who owns the land it grows on? If you own it, how did you buy it? Who brought apple seeds to the continent where you plucked it? Who raised you to the point that you were able to pluck that apple? Who built the roads that you drove on to get close to the apple tree? The car you drove? Who ensures that the air and water are clean enough for apple trees to grow there? The problem with any manufactured scenario such as this is that it narrows the focus down to a single act, and tries to claim that that is the entire system. It never is. The system has no beginning or end, and must be considered far beyond a single act if you are to meaningfully understand what supports it and just how interdependent it is or isn't.
  - refurb 2y ago
    LOL. You can't picture a scenario where early man plucks a wild apple? Or that tree naturally replicate themselves? The fact you ask about how they drove there made me chuckle.
    - danaris 2y ago
      You said "If *I* harvest a wild apple". You are, presumably, not an "early man", and whether or not you own a car, you certainly have access to the technology. While it is definitely an assumption, I'm guessing you are American. If so, then any apples you would be able to pluck would have been brought there by deliberate human seeding at some point in the past. Also, like with a great many food crops, if an early man were to pluck a truly wild apple, it would be rather different than what we would buy at an orchard today. Human cultivation over many millennia has massively changed most of the plants we eat—whether that be the leaves, the fruits, the seeds, or the roots. Your notion of a perfect state of pure wildness supporting humans who have never had any support from any other human is nothing but a fantasy.
      - refurb 2y ago
        > Your notion of a perfect state of pure wildness supporting humans who have never had any support from any other human is nothing but a fantasy. You really struggle with hypotheticals don't you? Either that or you're dancing around in order to avoid admitting that someone could produce something purely out of their own labor. It's clearly a false statement and you could use a number of other example - creating something basic out of wood, growing a wild edible food, using naturally occuring pigments to create art.

stirfish 2y ago

I don't know what you mean.

readyman 2y ago
We live in a society. All our knowledge and labor is dependent on prior knowledge and labor of our neighbors and those who came before us, also known as our society.

refurb 2y ago

Clearly falsifiable. If I harvest a random apple growing wild, that my labor alone. But I know where you’re going with that argument - everyone’s work is built upon someone else’s so…the government is entitled to all of it.

readyman 2y ago
>If I harvest a random apple growing wild, that my labor alone. Nonsense. It takes a village to raise a child, and the agricultural knowledge to harvest anything stands on the shoulders of approximately all of human history.
- refurb 2y ago
  An apple growing wild on a tree? Please share the "agricultural knowledge" require to pluck a ripe, wild apple? No. Man can harvest nature with his own labor and profit from it. Alone, with only his own work. I know that fact burns a certain side of the political spectrum, but it's the truth.
  - readyman 2y ago
    Under capitalism, this is called theft.
danaris 2y ago
Who planted that apple tree? Who owns the land it grows on? If you own it, how did you buy it? Who brought apple seeds to the continent where you plucked it? Who raised you to the point that you were able to pluck that apple? Who built the roads that you drove on to get close to the apple tree? The car you drove? Who ensures that the air and water are clean enough for apple trees to grow there? The problem with any manufactured scenario such as this is that it narrows the focus down to a single act, and tries to claim that that is the entire system. It never is. The system has no beginning or end, and must be considered far beyond a single act if you are to meaningfully understand what supports it and just how interdependent it is or isn't.
- refurb 2y ago
  LOL. You can't picture a scenario where early man plucks a wild apple? Or that tree naturally replicate themselves? The fact you ask about how they drove there made me chuckle.
  - danaris 2y ago
    You said "If *I* harvest a wild apple". You are, presumably, not an "early man", and whether or not you own a car, you certainly have access to the technology. While it is definitely an assumption, I'm guessing you are American. If so, then any apples you would be able to pluck would have been brought there by deliberate human seeding at some point in the past. Also, like with a great many food crops, if an early man were to pluck a truly wild apple, it would be rather different than what we would buy at an orchard today. Human cultivation over many millennia has massively changed most of the plants we eat—whether that be the leaves, the fruits, the seeds, or the roots. Your notion of a perfect state of pure wildness supporting humans who have never had any support from any other human is nothing but a fantasy.
    - refurb 2y ago
      > Your notion of a perfect state of pure wildness supporting humans who have never had any support from any other human is nothing but a fantasy. You really struggle with hypotheticals don't you? Either that or you're dancing around in order to avoid admitting that someone could produce something purely out of their own labor. It's clearly a false statement and you could use a number of other example - creating something basic out of wood, growing a wild edible food, using naturally occuring pigments to create art.