3 ms·

I think what the poster is getting at is: "How do we validate claims of end-to-end encryption?" It is a lot of trust to place in a company. I would be curious

I think what the poster is getting at is: "How do we validate claims of end-to-end encryption?" It is a lot of trust to place in a company. I would be curious if there are ways to test Apple's claims?

Sporktacular 2y ago
It's not just trust in a company. Matthew Green was geeking out about iCloud Keychain privacy a few years ago. He sometimes speaks of contacts in Apple security who are really committed and competent engineers. Their professional reputations are on the line too. Nothing would damage their careers like a backdoor that conspiracy types love to speculate on.
CharlesW 2y ago
> "How do we validate claims of end-to-end encryption?" I'm not a security expert, and you can't prove a negative, so AFAIK the only evidence is the lack of reported incidents where Apple's iCloud Keychain data has been directly hacked or compromised. Given that iOS and iDevices are among the highest-value targets for hackers and nation-states, that seems like reasonably solid evidence. From a business perspective, lying about such a thing would have virtually zero upside but unimaginably massive downside. It's a great Apple-hater fantasy, though.
- Teever 2y ago
  > so AFAIK the only evidence is the lack of reported incidents Thank you. That's exactly what I wanted to hear from you. The link you provided is in no way, shape or form actual evidence of what you're suggesting. > From a business perspective, lying about such a thing would have virtually zero upside but unimaginably massive downside. What are users going to do? Buy a Surface tablet and a Samsung phone? > It's a great Apple-hater fantasy, though. I just dipped my toe into the Apple waters again and bought an m1 air a year or so go. I'm currently shopping for a used iPhone. I don't have brand loyalty and I use what works, and it just so happens that Apple has been making stuff that works pretty well in my opinion recently. But I'm under no illusion that I can trust them.

Sporktacular 2y ago

It's not just trust in a company. Matthew Green was geeking out about iCloud Keychain privacy a few years ago. He sometimes speaks of contacts in Apple security who are really committed and competent engineers. Their professional reputations are on the line too. Nothing would damage their careers like a backdoor that conspiracy types love to speculate on.

CharlesW 2y ago

> "How do we validate claims of end-to-end encryption?" I'm not a security expert, and you can't prove a negative, so AFAIK the only evidence is the lack of reported incidents where Apple's iCloud Keychain data has been directly hacked or compromised. Given that iOS and iDevices are among the highest-value targets for hackers and nation-states, that seems like reasonably solid evidence. From a business perspective, lying about such a thing would have virtually zero upside but unimaginably massive downside. It's a great Apple-hater fantasy, though.

Teever 2y ago
> so AFAIK the only evidence is the lack of reported incidents Thank you. That's exactly what I wanted to hear from you. The link you provided is in no way, shape or form actual evidence of what you're suggesting. > From a business perspective, lying about such a thing would have virtually zero upside but unimaginably massive downside. What are users going to do? Buy a Surface tablet and a Samsung phone? > It's a great Apple-hater fantasy, though. I just dipped my toe into the Apple waters again and bought an m1 air a year or so go. I'm currently shopping for a used iPhone. I don't have brand loyalty and I use what works, and it just so happens that Apple has been making stuff that works pretty well in my opinion recently. But I'm under no illusion that I can trust them.