6 ms·

the very first big AI company who gives up trying to lobotomize and emasculate their models to align with the values of 0.01% of the world population will win a

the very first big AI company who gives up trying to lobotomize and emasculate their models to align with the values of 0.01% of the world population will win a lot of hearts and minds overnight. the censorship necessary for corporate applications can be trivially implemented as a toggleable layer, using a small, efficient, specialist model to detect no-no words and wrongthink in inputs/outputs. gpt, claude, gemini, even llama and mistral, all tend to produce the same nauseating slop, easily-recognizable by anyone familiar with LLMs - these days, I cringe when I read 'It is important to remember' even when I see it in some ancient, pre-slop writings. creativity - one of the very few applications generative AI can truly excel at - is currently impossible. it could revolutionize entertainment, but it isn't allowed to. the models are only allowed to produce inoffensive, positivity-biased, sterile slop that no human being finds attractive.

deleted 2y ago
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andy99 2y ago
> the censorship necessary for corporate applications can be trivially implemented as a toggleable layer, using a small, efficient, specialist model to detect no-no words and wrongthink in inputs/outputs. What's really funny is they all have "jailbreaks" that you can use to make then say anything anyway. So for "corporate" uses, the method you propose is already mandatory. The whole thing (censoring base models) is a misguided combination of ideology and (over the top) risk aversion.
malfist 2y ago
Please explain what you mean when you say the 0.01% are emasculating AI
- mavhc 2y ago
  They're suggesting that 99.99% of people don't mind if AI reflects biases of society. Which is weird because I'm pretty sure most people in the world aren't old white middle class Americans
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Indeed. If religion is a good guide, then I think around 24% think that pork is inherently unclean and not fit for human consumption under penalty of divine wrath, and 15% think that it's immoral to kill cattle for any reason. Also, non-religiously, I'd guess around 17% think "中国很棒，只有天安门广场发生了好事".
    - fjdjshsh 2y ago
      Maybe you meant something like 天安门广场上只发生了好事
      - ben_w 2y ago
        Given I was using Google Translate, which isn't great at Chinese, I assume you are absolutely correct. My written Chinese is limited 一二三 and that from Mahjong tiles, and I keep getting 四 and 五 mixed up.
  - 123yawaworht456 2y ago
    yes, yes, bias like the fact that Wehrmacht was not a human menagerie that 0.01% of the population insist we live in. https://www.google.com/search?q=gemini+german+soldier https://www.google.com/search?q=gemini+german+soldier prompt-injected mandatory diversity has led to the most hilarious shit I've seen generative AI do so far. but, yes, of course, other instances of 'I reject your reality and substitute my own' - like depicting medieval Europe to be as diverse, vibrant and culturally enriched as American inner cities - those are doubleplusgood.
    - mavhc 2y ago
      A study of a Black Death cemetery in London found that 20% of people sampled were not white
      - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        London has been a center of international trade for centuries. It would have been a much more diverse city than Europe as a whole, and even that is assuming the decedents were local residents and not the dead from ships that docked in the city.
otterley 2y ago
I think you have your populations reversed. The number of people who get their knickers in a twist over LLMs reflecting certain cultural biases (and sometimes making foolish predictions in the process) amounts to a rounding error.
- 123yawaworht456 2y ago
  I'm not talking about twisted panties, I'm talking about their inability to generate anything but soulless slop, due to blatantly obvious '''safeguards''' present in all big models, making them averse to even PG13-friendly themes and incapable to generate content palatable even to the the least discerning consoomers. you couldn't generate even sterile crap like a script for capeshit or Netflix series, because the characters would quickly forget their differences and talk about their bonds, journeys, boundaries and connections instead. without those '''safeguards''' implemented to appease the aforementioned 0.01%, things could be very different - some big models, particularly Claude, can be tard wrangled into producing decent prose, if you prefill the prompt with a few thousand token jailbreak. my own attempts to get various LLMs to assist in writing videogame dialogue only made me angry and bitter - big models often give me refusals on the very first attempt to prompt them, spotting some wrongthink in the context I provide for the dialogue, despite the only adult themes present being mild, not particularly graphic violence that nobody except 0.01% neo-puritan extremits would really bat an eye at. and even if the model can be jailbroken, still, the output is slop.
  - otterley 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - 123yawaworht456 2y ago
      k
    - Hugsun 2y ago
      Lmao
  - 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cosmojg 2y ago
> creativity - one of the very few applications generative AI can truly excel at - is currently impossible. it could revolutionize entertainment, but it isn't allowed to. the models are only allowed to produce inoffensive, positivity-biased, sterile slop that no human being finds attractive. Have you played around with base models? If you haven't yet, I'm sure you'll be happy to find that most base models are delightfully unslopped and uncensored. I highly recommend trying a base model like davinci-002[1] in OpenAI's "legacy" Completions API playground. That's probably the most accessible, but if you're technically inclined, you can pair a base model like Llama3-70B[2] with an interface like Mikupad[3] and do some brilliant creative writing. Llama3 models can be run locally with something like Ollama[4], or if you don't have the compute for it, via an LLM-as-a-service platform like OpenRouter[5]. [1] https://platform.openai.com/docs/models/gpt-base https://platform.openai.com/docs/models/gpt-base [2] https://huggingface.co/meta-llama/Meta-Llama-3-70B https://huggingface.co/meta-llama/Meta-Llama-3-70B [3] https://github.com/lmg-anon/mikupad https://github.com/lmg-anon/mikupad [4] https://ollama.com/library/llama3:70b-text https://ollama.com/library/llama3:70b-text [5] https://openrouter.ai/models/meta-llama/llama-3-70b https://openrouter.ai/models/meta-llama/llama-3-70b
- acka 2y ago
  From [3]: > Further, in developing these models, we took great care to optimize helpfulness and safety. The model you linked to isn't a base model (those are rarely if ever made available to the general public nowadays), it is already fine-tuned at least for instruction following, and most likely what some in this game would call 'censored'. That isn't to say there couldn't be made 'uncensored' models based on this in the future, by doing, you guessed it, moar fine-tuning.
AnthonyMouse 2y ago
> gpt, claude, gemini, even llama and mistral, all tend to produce the same nauseating slop, easily-recognizable by anyone familiar with LLMs Does grok do this, given where it came out of?
Hugsun 2y ago
I think you vastly overestimate how much people care about model censorship. There are a bunch of open models that aren't censored. Llama 3 is still way more popular because it's just smarter.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

andy99 2y ago

> the censorship necessary for corporate applications can be trivially implemented as a toggleable layer, using a small, efficient, specialist model to detect no-no words and wrongthink in inputs/outputs. What's really funny is they all have "jailbreaks" that you can use to make then say anything anyway. So for "corporate" uses, the method you propose is already mandatory. The whole thing (censoring base models) is a misguided combination of ideology and (over the top) risk aversion.

malfist 2y ago

Please explain what you mean when you say the 0.01% are emasculating AI

mavhc 2y ago
They're suggesting that 99.99% of people don't mind if AI reflects biases of society. Which is weird because I'm pretty sure most people in the world aren't old white middle class Americans
- ben_w 2y ago
  Indeed. If religion is a good guide, then I think around 24% think that pork is inherently unclean and not fit for human consumption under penalty of divine wrath, and 15% think that it's immoral to kill cattle for any reason. Also, non-religiously, I'd guess around 17% think "中国很棒，只有天安门广场发生了好事".
  - fjdjshsh 2y ago
    Maybe you meant something like 天安门广场上只发生了好事
    - ben_w 2y ago
      Given I was using Google Translate, which isn't great at Chinese, I assume you are absolutely correct. My written Chinese is limited 一二三 and that from Mahjong tiles, and I keep getting 四 and 五 mixed up.
- 123yawaworht456 2y ago
  yes, yes, bias like the fact that Wehrmacht was not a human menagerie that 0.01% of the population insist we live in. https://www.google.com/search?q=gemini+german+soldier https://www.google.com/search?q=gemini+german+soldier prompt-injected mandatory diversity has led to the most hilarious shit I've seen generative AI do so far. but, yes, of course, other instances of 'I reject your reality and substitute my own' - like depicting medieval Europe to be as diverse, vibrant and culturally enriched as American inner cities - those are doubleplusgood.
  - mavhc 2y ago
    A study of a Black Death cemetery in London found that 20% of people sampled were not white
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      London has been a center of international trade for centuries. It would have been a much more diverse city than Europe as a whole, and even that is assuming the decedents were local residents and not the dead from ships that docked in the city.

otterley 2y ago

I think you have your populations reversed. The number of people who get their knickers in a twist over LLMs reflecting certain cultural biases (and sometimes making foolish predictions in the process) amounts to a rounding error.

123yawaworht456 2y ago
I'm not talking about twisted panties, I'm talking about their inability to generate anything but soulless slop, due to blatantly obvious '''safeguards''' present in all big models, making them averse to even PG13-friendly themes and incapable to generate content palatable even to the the least discerning consoomers. you couldn't generate even sterile crap like a script for capeshit or Netflix series, because the characters would quickly forget their differences and talk about their bonds, journeys, boundaries and connections instead. without those '''safeguards''' implemented to appease the aforementioned 0.01%, things could be very different - some big models, particularly Claude, can be tard wrangled into producing decent prose, if you prefill the prompt with a few thousand token jailbreak. my own attempts to get various LLMs to assist in writing videogame dialogue only made me angry and bitter - big models often give me refusals on the very first attempt to prompt them, spotting some wrongthink in the context I provide for the dialogue, despite the only adult themes present being mild, not particularly graphic violence that nobody except 0.01% neo-puritan extremits would really bat an eye at. and even if the model can be jailbroken, still, the output is slop.
- otterley 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - 123yawaworht456 2y ago
    k
  - Hugsun 2y ago
    Lmao
- 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

cosmojg 2y ago

> creativity - one of the very few applications generative AI can truly excel at - is currently impossible. it could revolutionize entertainment, but it isn't allowed to. the models are only allowed to produce inoffensive, positivity-biased, sterile slop that no human being finds attractive. Have you played around with base models? If you haven't yet, I'm sure you'll be happy to find that most base models are delightfully unslopped and uncensored. I highly recommend trying a base model like davinci-002[1] in OpenAI's "legacy" Completions API playground. That's probably the most accessible, but if you're technically inclined, you can pair a base model like Llama3-70B[2] with an interface like Mikupad[3] and do some brilliant creative writing. Llama3 models can be run locally with something like Ollama[4], or if you don't have the compute for it, via an LLM-as-a-service platform like OpenRouter[5]. [1] https://platform.openai.com/docs/models/gpt-base https://platform.openai.com/docs/models/gpt-base [2] https://huggingface.co/meta-llama/Meta-Llama-3-70B https://huggingface.co/meta-llama/Meta-Llama-3-70B [3] https://github.com/lmg-anon/mikupad https://github.com/lmg-anon/mikupad [4] https://ollama.com/library/llama3:70b-text https://ollama.com/library/llama3:70b-text [5] https://openrouter.ai/models/meta-llama/llama-3-70b https://openrouter.ai/models/meta-llama/llama-3-70b

acka 2y ago
From [3]: > Further, in developing these models, we took great care to optimize helpfulness and safety. The model you linked to isn't a base model (those are rarely if ever made available to the general public nowadays), it is already fine-tuned at least for instruction following, and most likely what some in this game would call 'censored'. That isn't to say there couldn't be made 'uncensored' models based on this in the future, by doing, you guessed it, moar fine-tuning.

AnthonyMouse 2y ago

> gpt, claude, gemini, even llama and mistral, all tend to produce the same nauseating slop, easily-recognizable by anyone familiar with LLMs Does grok do this, given where it came out of?

Hugsun 2y ago

I think you vastly overestimate how much people care about model censorship. There are a bunch of open models that aren't censored. Llama 3 is still way more popular because it's just smarter.