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All this data shows me is that programmers typically peak in their 30s. You see the same effect in chess. But I'm not sure what it has to do with whether or no

All this data shows me is that programmers typically peak in their 30s. You see the same effect in chess. But I'm not sure what it has to do with whether or not you should create a programming language. If you started programming at 40 you will probably peak at 50. If you want to write a successful language, you probably should have tried to write a few bad ones first. Etc. But why do you want to create a "popular language" in the first place? Why aren't the existing ones good enough? Is it because you need to fill a need in the world, or because you want to achieve fame and glory?

normie3000 2y ago
> programmers typically peak in their 30s Should programmers expect to get worse at their job in their late 30s or as they enter their 40s? This seems like a surprising conclusion.
- asdfman123 2y ago
  You probably get worse at cranking out code, yeah. Familiarizing yourself with large codebases, learning new ones, etc. I assume you become a worse mid-level developer, but maybe a better senior dev or manager because you can tell mid-level devs what pitfalls to avoid, and know how to navigate political systems better. I want to avoid the conclusion frankly too because I'm in my late 30s. But every intense intellectual or creative pursuit seems to peak in your youth and early adulthood -- look at composers, mathematicians, scientists, etc. People make their big individual contributions while still young.
linguae 2y ago
I have a theory: perhaps the reason programmers may peak in their 30s has to do with programmers changing their roles later in their careers to where they spend less time coding and more time doing other tasks. For example, junior- and senior-level software engineers spend a lot of time programming. However, staff-level software engineers are more involved in high-level architectural decisions, and there are also many mid-career software engineers who transition to management. We see something similar with researchers. PhD students are typically in their 20s; they are focused on their thesis research, and the thesis work is done alone since a PhD is earned based on individual effort. However, the role of an assistant professor in computer science is very different. Aside from teaching and service requirements, assistant professors are responsible for carrying out an entire research program, which involves fundraising (applying to grants, soliciting industry for funding), recruiting and advising grad students and postdocs, and keeping up to date with the latest research advances in the field. There is less time for individual coding, and additionally hitting the productivity metrics many universities expect for their professors requires having a lab instead of working individually like a grad student or postdoc.
- asdfman123 2y ago
  One thing I've noticed as I've reached my late 30s is I'm less hungry to learn new things, and I used to be very intellectually driven. I'm increasingly tired of keeping up with everything and proving myself. I think if you can stay hungry then you can stay good for longer. But maybe it's partly motivation, and partly raw ability. Maybe they're somewhat linked.
  - jart 2y ago
    Hungry for what? To throw all your experience away, by switching to the next vogue language framework?
    - asdfman123 2y ago
      I agree, learning stuff like that is a dubious value add. But I'm less hungry to learn all sorts of new things. I still like learning, but when I was young I had to know everything.
    - lesuorac 2y ago
      While I agree with your sentiment; if you don't try new stuff you won't learn if something new is better suited than your current framework. Perhaps wait until things are no longer cutting edge to learn about it is a good compromise.
      - jart 2y ago
        I mostly code in C, C++, Python, Emacs, Almquist, GNU Make, and VanillaJS. I have been for more than two decades. My website looks like danluu.com and bellard.org. Why do I need to change?
        lesuorac 2y ago
        I highly doubt there's anything in that list that can't be done by C; why didn't you stop after learning C? This is why you still have to learn stuff, it turns out that new technologies can be useful.

normie3000 2y ago

> programmers typically peak in their 30s Should programmers expect to get worse at their job in their late 30s or as they enter their 40s? This seems like a surprising conclusion.

asdfman123 2y ago
You probably get worse at cranking out code, yeah. Familiarizing yourself with large codebases, learning new ones, etc. I assume you become a worse mid-level developer, but maybe a better senior dev or manager because you can tell mid-level devs what pitfalls to avoid, and know how to navigate political systems better. I want to avoid the conclusion frankly too because I'm in my late 30s. But every intense intellectual or creative pursuit seems to peak in your youth and early adulthood -- look at composers, mathematicians, scientists, etc. People make their big individual contributions while still young.

linguae 2y ago

I have a theory: perhaps the reason programmers may peak in their 30s has to do with programmers changing their roles later in their careers to where they spend less time coding and more time doing other tasks. For example, junior- and senior-level software engineers spend a lot of time programming. However, staff-level software engineers are more involved in high-level architectural decisions, and there are also many mid-career software engineers who transition to management. We see something similar with researchers. PhD students are typically in their 20s; they are focused on their thesis research, and the thesis work is done alone since a PhD is earned based on individual effort. However, the role of an assistant professor in computer science is very different. Aside from teaching and service requirements, assistant professors are responsible for carrying out an entire research program, which involves fundraising (applying to grants, soliciting industry for funding), recruiting and advising grad students and postdocs, and keeping up to date with the latest research advances in the field. There is less time for individual coding, and additionally hitting the productivity metrics many universities expect for their professors requires having a lab instead of working individually like a grad student or postdoc.

asdfman123 2y ago
One thing I've noticed as I've reached my late 30s is I'm less hungry to learn new things, and I used to be very intellectually driven. I'm increasingly tired of keeping up with everything and proving myself. I think if you can stay hungry then you can stay good for longer. But maybe it's partly motivation, and partly raw ability. Maybe they're somewhat linked.
- jart 2y ago
  Hungry for what? To throw all your experience away, by switching to the next vogue language framework?
  - asdfman123 2y ago
    I agree, learning stuff like that is a dubious value add. But I'm less hungry to learn all sorts of new things. I still like learning, but when I was young I had to know everything.
  - lesuorac 2y ago
    While I agree with your sentiment; if you don't try new stuff you won't learn if something new is better suited than your current framework. Perhaps wait until things are no longer cutting edge to learn about it is a good compromise.
    - jart 2y ago
      I mostly code in C, C++, Python, Emacs, Almquist, GNU Make, and VanillaJS. I have been for more than two decades. My website looks like danluu.com and bellard.org. Why do I need to change?
      - lesuorac 2y ago
        I highly doubt there's anything in that list that can't be done by C; why didn't you stop after learning C? This is why you still have to learn stuff, it turns out that new technologies can be useful.