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I'm Sicilian, and I would call this a well put video. If you go in Messina you will see that the city is oddly oriented with the back of the buildings and squar

I'm Sicilian, and I would call this a well put video. If you go in Messina you will see that the city is oddly oriented with the back of the buildings and squares and everything facing the sea, like if the city is actively aware that the sea is dangerous. This shape was given by the reconstruction after the tsunami. Btw: taking the boat from Messina to Villa San Giovanni is quite a nice experience. There is a tradition to eat arancini while crossing. Most Sicilians are not actually hoping so much to see this bridge to be completed, especially since in Catania and Palermo there are very high traffic airports with plenty of cheap options to go to Rome or Milan (Catania airport is the 3rd by number of flights in Italy). If the fast trains available in the North would be available here, it would be different perhaps. About the social factors, if the bridge would start from Catania, where I live, I could be a bit more positive about the ability to complete it. Catania has kinda of a different mentality compared to the rest of Sicily (I guess I can tell this without biases since I'm from the center of Sicily and lived in multiple places for years). For instance Catania is the only place under Naples to have a subway. Apple and Ikea are in Catania, and so forth, in general you can make things work here, and even if this is a national project, local factors may play a role. Messina is not similarly well positioned.

znpy 2y ago
> since in Catania and Palermo there are very high traffic airports with plenty of cheap options to go to Rome or Milan What you fail to mention is that very often such “cheap” flights and paid in part by the state with public money. If that bridge you’d have other options
- antirez 2y ago
  Actually the exact reverse is true: the flights are in general overpriced during vacation seasons because emigrates are desperate to return home and stay with their families a few days. So airways companies exploit this fact. They are cheap in certain periods (not for government helps that are minimal and only recently reintroduced: an unfair price with a 25% of discount remains an unfair price), terribly costly in other periods (500 euros for 2000km flight is common), because the government is not protecting enough people living here or living in Milan/Rome but originally from Sicily. They should have access to decent ticket prices. At the same time you can go from Milano Malpensa to Lisbona with 30 euros or alike...
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    Normally planes have price buckets - it’s just that at holidays cheap buckets are sold out quicker. It’s a bit like those insane parking costs - they are left for people who REALLY need it. Government can’t print more tickets for nonexistent seats.
throw0101d 2y ago
> Most Sicilians are not actually hoping so much to see this bridge to be completed, especially since in Catania and Palermo there are very high traffic airports with plenty of cheap options to go to Rome or Milan (Catania airport is the 3rd by number of flights in Italy). If the fast trains available in the North would be available here, it would be different perhaps. Would a rail connection help with shipping goods? Would a road connection help with transport trucks?
- antirez 2y ago
  Well, this is a very fucked-up situation. When I was a child, during 80s, most of the Sicily / North Italy goods shipping was by train / boat, and we had good railways. Then a decision was made to favor trucks: I don't know why. So in general, yes, shipping goods via train was a lot better and less costly AFAIK. But politics play a role, as the trains where suppressed in Sicily with some agenda. In general companies shipping stuff from/to North with trucks are not in the cleanest hands. Note that trains can pass from Messina without huge issues as it was already made for decades. The train gets disassembled and put on the boat and assembled back on the other side, this happens many times every day. It is how it works right now. But in general, I believe that trains is what could give more sense to this project.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - thinkindie 2y ago
    Back then most of the trucks were made by IVECO, hence FIAT. This is the same reason highways are quite developed across Italy, while Milan is the only place with proper infrastructure in place for commuters. It's the same reason Turin had to wait until early 2000s (before the Olympics) to get an underground rail. The biggest issue with Sicily infrastructure is that most of the rail lines are single tracks, plus southern of Salerno you don't have high speed trains. Therefore the bridge itself cannot make much of an impact without fixing the infrastructure at both sides of the (hypothetical) bridge.
simonebrunozzi 2y ago
> Catania airport is the 3rd by number of flights in Italy 5th, not 3rd [0], after Rome, Milan, Bergamo, Naples, and before Venice - passengers, not number of flights. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_i...
- antirez 2y ago
  Catania and Naples have the same number of flights if you check recent stats (last stats released: https://assaeroporti.com/statistiche/ https://assaeroporti.com/statistiche/). Sometimes Catania is ahead, sometimes Naples. So indeed not 3rd but 4th, with Catania and Naples having the same traffic.
  - ottavio 2y ago
    On yearly basis, in 2023 it was #6 See page 83 of https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JHNwYFeNqfE2K6u08vk2-_ujhrYt9aJb/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JHNwYFeNqfE2K6u08vk2-_ujhrY...
RaoulP 2y ago
Sicily is really stunning. You make me want to return there now… But I’m curious (if you don’t mind) - as an accomplished programmer/entrepreneur, do you ever feel torn between wanting to live in your idyllic home of Sicily, vs. a hub like Silicon Valley? Do you feel limited in terms of what you can do, and does that matter to you? I ask because Sicily seems close to your heart, while I think it’s also safe to assume that you would have lots of opportunity elsewhere. I imagine staying was a very conscious decision? There are lots of wonderful but “small” corners of the world where people might face the same dilemma.
- jtwaleson 2y ago
  Off-topic, but I would one day like to start a tech hub there called "Sicilian Valley". An ideal place for techies from northern Europe to spend the winter. Rent an office with your team for a week or two and have a great time.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- antirez 2y ago
  Yeah this is a non trivial thing. Sicily is economically depressed, but what is interesting is that it is generally not culturally depressed, I mean we had geniuses like Majorana because the university of math in Catania was good once, and there are a lot of "thinkers" so you are not like alone in some island but with 5 million of people, part of which do the most desperate things and are intellectually very active. At the same time, the weather is good, the food is good, the life does not cost too much, there is a lot of history and nature. And... for people doing programming, there is the Internet, like this site. About connections with the IT system: in part I believe that in isolation you can accomplish more work, even if it is true that the group, the network, sometimes create a "chain effect", but I'm a very solitary programmer, so this setup worked for me. At the same time I don't "value" to remain where you were born: I respect a lot people that are tired form staying here and want to go away. What I miss the most is that the helathcare system in North Italy is at the same time free and among the best systems in the world. Here is decent, but not at the same level, so for serious stuff there are people going to Milan or Turin or Florence to get some procedure, and that's not cool. But, air quality is stellare compared to North, and this also is a part in the health story. Compromises...
rice7th 2y ago
Yea, coming from Trapani I can surely say that Catania doesn't even feel like Sicily. It is much more advanced than even Palermo, and no other city can really compete. That's the real problem of Sicily; it's not about the bridge itself, but rather the whole ecomomic situation and living standard that lags behind the rest of Italy. I don't remember if the rest of Sicily is affected, but in Trapani we don't even get fresh water every day! Instead each house has canisters and pumps that fill every 3 days or so. Another example might be the almost complete lack of actual industries and a much more agricultural-based economy, to the point that almost all sicilians also own a farm or a piece of farmland (or at least I think so, again, I haven't visited much outside of Trapani). There are *lots* of things to improve, but I still think that Sicily has one of the highest economic potentials of the 20 regions, because it has lots of natural resources, people and space, and Catania is definitely an example of that potential turned into reality. Also Palermo does have a subway, so Catania isn't the only city with such privilege.
BA_and_bored 2y ago
I'm pretty sure that this bridge would be built either by the Chinese or it won't be built at all.

znpy 2y ago

> since in Catania and Palermo there are very high traffic airports with plenty of cheap options to go to Rome or Milan What you fail to mention is that very often such “cheap” flights and paid in part by the state with public money. If that bridge you’d have other options

antirez 2y ago
Actually the exact reverse is true: the flights are in general overpriced during vacation seasons because emigrates are desperate to return home and stay with their families a few days. So airways companies exploit this fact. They are cheap in certain periods (not for government helps that are minimal and only recently reintroduced: an unfair price with a 25% of discount remains an unfair price), terribly costly in other periods (500 euros for 2000km flight is common), because the government is not protecting enough people living here or living in Milan/Rome but originally from Sicily. They should have access to decent ticket prices. At the same time you can go from Milano Malpensa to Lisbona with 30 euros or alike...
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  Normally planes have price buckets - it’s just that at holidays cheap buckets are sold out quicker. It’s a bit like those insane parking costs - they are left for people who REALLY need it. Government can’t print more tickets for nonexistent seats.

throw0101d 2y ago

> Most Sicilians are not actually hoping so much to see this bridge to be completed, especially since in Catania and Palermo there are very high traffic airports with plenty of cheap options to go to Rome or Milan (Catania airport is the 3rd by number of flights in Italy). If the fast trains available in the North would be available here, it would be different perhaps. Would a rail connection help with shipping goods? Would a road connection help with transport trucks?

antirez 2y ago
Well, this is a very fucked-up situation. When I was a child, during 80s, most of the Sicily / North Italy goods shipping was by train / boat, and we had good railways. Then a decision was made to favor trucks: I don't know why. So in general, yes, shipping goods via train was a lot better and less costly AFAIK. But politics play a role, as the trains where suppressed in Sicily with some agenda. In general companies shipping stuff from/to North with trucks are not in the cleanest hands. Note that trains can pass from Messina without huge issues as it was already made for decades. The train gets disassembled and put on the boat and assembled back on the other side, this happens many times every day. It is how it works right now. But in general, I believe that trains is what could give more sense to this project.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- thinkindie 2y ago
  Back then most of the trucks were made by IVECO, hence FIAT. This is the same reason highways are quite developed across Italy, while Milan is the only place with proper infrastructure in place for commuters. It's the same reason Turin had to wait until early 2000s (before the Olympics) to get an underground rail. The biggest issue with Sicily infrastructure is that most of the rail lines are single tracks, plus southern of Salerno you don't have high speed trains. Therefore the bridge itself cannot make much of an impact without fixing the infrastructure at both sides of the (hypothetical) bridge.

simonebrunozzi 2y ago

> Catania airport is the 3rd by number of flights in Italy 5th, not 3rd [0], after Rome, Milan, Bergamo, Naples, and before Venice - passengers, not number of flights. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_i...

antirez 2y ago
Catania and Naples have the same number of flights if you check recent stats (last stats released: https://assaeroporti.com/statistiche/ https://assaeroporti.com/statistiche/). Sometimes Catania is ahead, sometimes Naples. So indeed not 3rd but 4th, with Catania and Naples having the same traffic.
- ottavio 2y ago
  On yearly basis, in 2023 it was #6 See page 83 of https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JHNwYFeNqfE2K6u08vk2-_ujhrYt9aJb/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JHNwYFeNqfE2K6u08vk2-_ujhrY...

RaoulP 2y ago

Sicily is really stunning. You make me want to return there now… But I’m curious (if you don’t mind) - as an accomplished programmer/entrepreneur, do you ever feel torn between wanting to live in your idyllic home of Sicily, vs. a hub like Silicon Valley? Do you feel limited in terms of what you can do, and does that matter to you? I ask because Sicily seems close to your heart, while I think it’s also safe to assume that you would have lots of opportunity elsewhere. I imagine staying was a very conscious decision? There are lots of wonderful but “small” corners of the world where people might face the same dilemma.

jtwaleson 2y ago
Off-topic, but I would one day like to start a tech hub there called "Sicilian Valley". An ideal place for techies from northern Europe to spend the winter. Rent an office with your team for a week or two and have a great time.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
antirez 2y ago
Yeah this is a non trivial thing. Sicily is economically depressed, but what is interesting is that it is generally not culturally depressed, I mean we had geniuses like Majorana because the university of math in Catania was good once, and there are a lot of "thinkers" so you are not like alone in some island but with 5 million of people, part of which do the most desperate things and are intellectually very active. At the same time, the weather is good, the food is good, the life does not cost too much, there is a lot of history and nature. And... for people doing programming, there is the Internet, like this site. About connections with the IT system: in part I believe that in isolation you can accomplish more work, even if it is true that the group, the network, sometimes create a "chain effect", but I'm a very solitary programmer, so this setup worked for me. At the same time I don't "value" to remain where you were born: I respect a lot people that are tired form staying here and want to go away. What I miss the most is that the helathcare system in North Italy is at the same time free and among the best systems in the world. Here is decent, but not at the same level, so for serious stuff there are people going to Milan or Turin or Florence to get some procedure, and that's not cool. But, air quality is stellare compared to North, and this also is a part in the health story. Compromises...

rice7th 2y ago

Yea, coming from Trapani I can surely say that Catania doesn't even feel like Sicily. It is much more advanced than even Palermo, and no other city can really compete. That's the real problem of Sicily; it's not about the bridge itself, but rather the whole ecomomic situation and living standard that lags behind the rest of Italy. I don't remember if the rest of Sicily is affected, but in Trapani we don't even get fresh water every day! Instead each house has canisters and pumps that fill every 3 days or so. Another example might be the almost complete lack of actual industries and a much more agricultural-based economy, to the point that almost all sicilians also own a farm or a piece of farmland (or at least I think so, again, I haven't visited much outside of Trapani). There are *lots* of things to improve, but I still think that Sicily has one of the highest economic potentials of the 20 regions, because it has lots of natural resources, people and space, and Catania is definitely an example of that potential turned into reality. Also Palermo does have a subway, so Catania isn't the only city with such privilege.

BA_and_bored 2y ago

I'm pretty sure that this bridge would be built either by the Chinese or it won't be built at all.