23 ms·

Could this be used to extend the lifetime of an already worn-out SSD? I wonder if there's some business in china taking those and reflashing them as "new".

dannyw 2y ago
Technically, QLC NAND that is no longer able to distinguish at QLC levels should certainly still be suitable as MLC for a while longer, and SLC, for all practical intents and purposes, forever.
- ComputerGuru 2y ago
  Yes, but certainly no consumer or even enterprise ssd firmware has bothered to integrate that functionality.
chasil 2y ago
The only rejuvenation process that I know is heat, either long period exposure to 250°C or short-term at higher temperature (800°C). https://m.hexus.net/tech/news/storage/48893-making-flash-memory-reliable-800c-heat-pulses/ https://m.hexus.net/tech/news/storage/48893-making-flash-mem... https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DH4waJBeENVQ&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwi8vZ-hnJqGAxXe5MkDHcDVDssQtwJ6BAgJEAE&usg=AOvVaw1W33ppIBhz_KnYwxTCv7Vn https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DH4waJBeENVQ&sa=U&ved=2ahUK...
- justinclift 2y ago
  So the trick is to somehow redirect all of the heat energy coming from cpus onto the storage, in bursts? :D
  - kasabali 2y ago
    Stay closer, now they're putting heatsinks on controller chips of SSDs :D
  - ComputerGuru 2y ago
    Maybe 6-8 years ago, Samsung (?) used to advise foregoing a heatsink on their nvme sticks for optimal results.
- userbinator 2y ago
  That first article was 12 years ago when MLC was the norm and had 10k endurance. Macronix have known about the benefits of heating for a long time but previously used to bake NAND chips in an oven at around 250C for a few hours to anneal them – that’s an expensive and inconvenient thing to do for electronic components! I wonder if the e-waste recycling operations in China may be doing that to "refurbish" worn out NAND flash and resell it. They already do harvesting of ICs so it doesn't seem impossible... and maybe this effect was first noticed by someone heating the chips to desolder them.

dannyw 2y ago

Technically, QLC NAND that is no longer able to distinguish at QLC levels should certainly still be suitable as MLC for a while longer, and SLC, for all practical intents and purposes, forever.

ComputerGuru 2y ago
Yes, but certainly no consumer or even enterprise ssd firmware has bothered to integrate that functionality.

chasil 2y ago

The only rejuvenation process that I know is heat, either long period exposure to 250°C or short-term at higher temperature (800°C). https://m.hexus.net/tech/news/storage/48893-making-flash-memory-reliable-800c-heat-pulses/ https://m.hexus.net/tech/news/storage/48893-making-flash-mem... https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DH4waJBeENVQ&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwi8vZ-hnJqGAxXe5MkDHcDVDssQtwJ6BAgJEAE&usg=AOvVaw1W33ppIBhz_KnYwxTCv7Vn https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DH4waJBeENVQ&sa=U&ved=2ahUK...

justinclift 2y ago
So the trick is to somehow redirect all of the heat energy coming from cpus onto the storage, in bursts? :D
- kasabali 2y ago
  Stay closer, now they're putting heatsinks on controller chips of SSDs :D
- ComputerGuru 2y ago
  Maybe 6-8 years ago, Samsung (?) used to advise foregoing a heatsink on their nvme sticks for optimal results.
userbinator 2y ago
That first article was 12 years ago when MLC was the norm and had 10k endurance. Macronix have known about the benefits of heating for a long time but previously used to bake NAND chips in an oven at around 250C for a few hours to anneal them – that’s an expensive and inconvenient thing to do for electronic components! I wonder if the e-waste recycling operations in China may be doing that to "refurbish" worn out NAND flash and resell it. They already do harvesting of ICs so it doesn't seem impossible... and maybe this effect was first noticed by someone heating the chips to desolder them.