4 ms·

Raising the temperature is probably a close analog to psychedelics.

boesboes 2y ago
I've read once they determined the mechanism by which a.o lsd 'works', is by lowering/disabling a lot of the filtering between neurons. This leads us to recognise all kinds of patterns that are not really there. Visual hallucinations being the obvious form of this, but I suppose the same applies to other things like our personalities and self; that's neither here nor there anyway. Now I'm not 100% sure how temperature is implemented, but from what i recollect, might be a reasonable analogue indeed!
- neom 2y ago
  That's not really correct. default mode network activity is somewhat disrupted, but LSD works primarily by interaction with the 5-HT2A receptor subtype, this is multiple neurotransmitter systems, including serotonin, dopamine, and glutamate, and in many examples it's via excitement not inhibition/lowering/disabling. Excitatory neurotransmission in glutamate is looking like the the most important of the work in the 5-HT2A area.
  - schmidtleonard 2y ago
    Does excitatory/inhibitory map cleanly on to the higher level abstractions? I'm no neuroscientist, so maybe it does, but that seems like a bad assumption to me because in digital logic "active when low" is extremely common. A spurious-suppression system that caused inhibition when low would be perfectly reasonable and compatible with the observation that excitation caused an increase in spurious behavior.
    - neom 2y ago
      They don't really map well. The brain obviously operates on more continuous principles rather than binary states. The relationship between excitation/inhibition and emergent effects may be more direct and graded in biological neural networks vs to the "active when low". Buuuutt stiilll, 5-HT2A receptor and its downstream effects on glutamate transmission play a central role in mediating the subjective effects of psychedelics. Very very many studies have consistently linked 5-HT2A activation to the perceptual, cognitive, and emotional characteristic of the psychedelic state. Disruption of the default mode network and other changes are somewhat important maybe, the 5-HT2A receptor appears to be the focus of action for producing these effects. The point being, neurochemical interactions at the molecular level are the most important aspects of the LSD interaction, so.., now sure how that works in the context of synthetic AI, I don't know much about ML/NN.
      - schmidtleonard 2y ago
        I still don't see the reason why glutamate or 5-HT2A receptor excitation (in the chemical sense) couldn't be involved with inhibition reduction (in the psychological sense).

I've read once they determined the mechanism by which a.o lsd 'works', is by lowering/disabling a lot of the filtering between neurons. This leads us to recognise all kinds of patterns that are not really there. Visual hallucinations being the obvious form of this, but I suppose the same applies to other things like our personalities and self; that's neither here nor there anyway. Now I'm not 100% sure how temperature is implemented, but from what i recollect, might be a reasonable analogue indeed!

neom 2y ago
That's not really correct. default mode network activity is somewhat disrupted, but LSD works primarily by interaction with the 5-HT2A receptor subtype, this is multiple neurotransmitter systems, including serotonin, dopamine, and glutamate, and in many examples it's via excitement not inhibition/lowering/disabling. Excitatory neurotransmission in glutamate is looking like the the most important of the work in the 5-HT2A area.
- schmidtleonard 2y ago
  Does excitatory/inhibitory map cleanly on to the higher level abstractions? I'm no neuroscientist, so maybe it does, but that seems like a bad assumption to me because in digital logic "active when low" is extremely common. A spurious-suppression system that caused inhibition when low would be perfectly reasonable and compatible with the observation that excitation caused an increase in spurious behavior.
  - neom 2y ago
    They don't really map well. The brain obviously operates on more continuous principles rather than binary states. The relationship between excitation/inhibition and emergent effects may be more direct and graded in biological neural networks vs to the "active when low". Buuuutt stiilll, 5-HT2A receptor and its downstream effects on glutamate transmission play a central role in mediating the subjective effects of psychedelics. Very very many studies have consistently linked 5-HT2A activation to the perceptual, cognitive, and emotional characteristic of the psychedelic state. Disruption of the default mode network and other changes are somewhat important maybe, the 5-HT2A receptor appears to be the focus of action for producing these effects. The point being, neurochemical interactions at the molecular level are the most important aspects of the LSD interaction, so.., now sure how that works in the context of synthetic AI, I don't know much about ML/NN.
    - schmidtleonard 2y ago
      I still don't see the reason why glutamate or 5-HT2A receptor excitation (in the chemical sense) couldn't be involved with inhibition reduction (in the psychological sense).