6 ms·

More interesting? I doubt it. Linear algebra, probability, and symbolic logic require significant prior work with math that high school students usually don't

More interesting? I doubt it. Linear algebra, probability, and symbolic logic require significant prior work with math that high school students usually don't have exposure to. Getting them through arithmetic and algebra apparently presents enough problems.

defrost 2y ago
High School math is streamed (usually). 40+ years ago in Australia I took the Year 11|12 (upper high school) stream that included calculus, probability, basic linear algebra and a wee bit of abstract algebra (groups, fields, rings). The middle stream covered math for technical trades; serious electricians, woodworkers, metal workers, locomotive and heavy equipment engineers. The basic stream was math for balancing budgets.
- navjack27 2y ago
  Not to be rude but what does what you did have to do with literally anything being asked here?
  - defrost 2y ago
    The statement made was the proposed idea was dead in the water as it involved: > math that high school students usually don't have exposure to. My response is that myself and significant numbers of other high school students took math at levels sufficient to talk about LLM's + AI. It's not for all high school students, which is why sensible high school curriculums aren't monolithic. FWiW I didn't attend a fancy private school, just a regular public high school in a semi remote (at the time) part of Australia.
- gregjor 2y ago
  Most US states require 2-4 years of math credits for graduation. Typically that means algebra and geometry. Schools may offer trigonometry, calculus, probability and statistics, but those classes would attract students already motivated and inclined to study mathematics. The OP asked about motivating students in high school math (country not specified) by teaching the math underlying LLMs. That assumes LLMs or "AI" look more interesting or relevant to high school students than the math they learn now. But they would still need a good grounding in algebra at minimum, and the average high school student in America barely gets through that, and with little motivation to continue studying math. So I don't think dangling LLMs in front of them will spark more interest.
  - defrost 2y ago
    In general, no .. the point remains that there exist high school math students that would be motivated to read further given a brief overview of how LLM's work. Eg: at least one fellow high school student I studied calculus with now teaches machine learning and other math as a professor in a Canadian university.
    - gregjor 2y ago
      I don't think anyone argues otherwise. Students already motivated can learn how LLMs work. But the OP didn't ask that. As I read it, the question seems to ask how to motivate "most" students by making high school math "more interesting." I read that as a reference to the poor student performance and lack of interest in high school math. How to motivate "most" students has nothing to do with what the few motivated and interested students do in school. My high school (in the US) offered programming classes that counted as math credits. Very few students took those classes, and quite a few students lost interest in the first few weeks. A handful of us had sufficient motivation to learn how to program, back when that was the next big thing (1970s).
      - defrost 2y ago
        You can only throw breadcrumbs on the water, you can't make ducks eat them. The strategy in my state was to have a standard curriculum, on top of that all manner of things were tossed out to high school as bait to catch students with an aptitude or interest in languages, law, physics, chemistry, biology, applied trade skills, etc. Can you motivate all high school students studying { X } with Y? - No. Will that motivate some? Possibly - it's worth a shot.
        gregjor 2y ago
        Maybe school curricula changes faster in Australia, but in the USA by the time LLMs get into the textbooks, and enough teachers get trained to motivate students, either AI will have turned us into paperclips, or the LLM craze will get taught as a modern Extraordinary Popular Delusion and referred to as the Third AI Winter.

defrost 2y ago

High School math is streamed (usually). 40+ years ago in Australia I took the Year 11|12 (upper high school) stream that included calculus, probability, basic linear algebra and a wee bit of abstract algebra (groups, fields, rings). The middle stream covered math for technical trades; serious electricians, woodworkers, metal workers, locomotive and heavy equipment engineers. The basic stream was math for balancing budgets.

navjack27 2y ago
Not to be rude but what does what you did have to do with literally anything being asked here?
- defrost 2y ago
  The statement made was the proposed idea was dead in the water as it involved: > math that high school students usually don't have exposure to. My response is that myself and significant numbers of other high school students took math at levels sufficient to talk about LLM's + AI. It's not for all high school students, which is why sensible high school curriculums aren't monolithic. FWiW I didn't attend a fancy private school, just a regular public high school in a semi remote (at the time) part of Australia.
gregjor 2y ago
Most US states require 2-4 years of math credits for graduation. Typically that means algebra and geometry. Schools may offer trigonometry, calculus, probability and statistics, but those classes would attract students already motivated and inclined to study mathematics. The OP asked about motivating students in high school math (country not specified) by teaching the math underlying LLMs. That assumes LLMs or "AI" look more interesting or relevant to high school students than the math they learn now. But they would still need a good grounding in algebra at minimum, and the average high school student in America barely gets through that, and with little motivation to continue studying math. So I don't think dangling LLMs in front of them will spark more interest.
- defrost 2y ago
  In general, no .. the point remains that there exist high school math students that would be motivated to read further given a brief overview of how LLM's work. Eg: at least one fellow high school student I studied calculus with now teaches machine learning and other math as a professor in a Canadian university.
  - gregjor 2y ago
    I don't think anyone argues otherwise. Students already motivated can learn how LLMs work. But the OP didn't ask that. As I read it, the question seems to ask how to motivate "most" students by making high school math "more interesting." I read that as a reference to the poor student performance and lack of interest in high school math. How to motivate "most" students has nothing to do with what the few motivated and interested students do in school. My high school (in the US) offered programming classes that counted as math credits. Very few students took those classes, and quite a few students lost interest in the first few weeks. A handful of us had sufficient motivation to learn how to program, back when that was the next big thing (1970s).
    - defrost 2y ago
      You can only throw breadcrumbs on the water, you can't make ducks eat them. The strategy in my state was to have a standard curriculum, on top of that all manner of things were tossed out to high school as bait to catch students with an aptitude or interest in languages, law, physics, chemistry, biology, applied trade skills, etc. Can you motivate all high school students studying { X } with Y? - No. Will that motivate some? Possibly - it's worth a shot.
      - gregjor 2y ago
        Maybe school curricula changes faster in Australia, but in the USA by the time LLMs get into the textbooks, and enough teachers get trained to motivate students, either AI will have turned us into paperclips, or the LLM craze will get taught as a modern Extraordinary Popular Delusion and referred to as the Third AI Winter.