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The EU commission and EU parliament are somewhat removed from public backlash, it's one of the reasons people complain about the EU being "undemocratic". So t

The EU commission and EU parliament are somewhat removed from public backlash, it's one of the reasons people complain about the EU being "undemocratic". So the commission or random EU MEP would be affected after 5 years or so. Tim Cook would get backlash from stockholders the moment he announced he wanted to stop getting EU revenue rather than comply with regulations.

Kwpolska 2y ago
There's an EU parliament election in a few weeks or so, how is that undemocratic?
- pjerem 2y ago
  The EU Parliament can’t make decisions, it can only veto the commission which acts as an unelected government (nominated by elected representatives of each country). But I agree with you that this idea of an undemocratic EU is rather false and really dangerous. Everyone feels like this because nobody understands that the commission don’t represent the interests of their country but those of all the European countries which few people are capable of naming years after school.
  - hulitu 2y ago
    > The EU Parliament can’t make decisions, So it has no power > that this idea of an undemocratic EU is rather false and really dangerous Of course it is false and dangerous. Any disturbance in lobby money, flowing to the corrupt, unelected politicians, is false and dangerous. /s
  - malermeister 2y ago
    The Comission is appointed by directly elected governments, e.g. with one proxy in-between. It is as (un-) democratic as the American Presidency, considering the Electoral College. Yet you never hear complaints about the EC from the same types that love to rally against the Commission.
    - emptysongglass 2y ago
      Actually, you do, all the time. Yes, they are both undemocratic institutions and that should be changed.
  - yau8edq12i 2y ago
    The EU parliament can absolutely make decisions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Powers_and_functions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Powers_and... This is middle school level knowledge...
    - aembleton 2y ago
      Can it initiate legislation? Any examples of legislation that were drafted by meps?
      - yau8edq12i 2y ago
        I wasn't aware that "make decisions" meant exclusively "initiate legislation". You don't have to play coy, though: it is also middle school level knowledge that the parliament cannot formally initiate the legislative process. It's also written in the Wikipedia article I linked. > The European Parliament has legislative power in that the adoption of EU legislation normally requires its approval, and that of the Council, in what amounts to a bicameral legislature. However, it does not formally possess the right of initiative (i.e. the right to formally initiate the legislative procedure) in the way that most national parliaments of the member states do, as the right of initiative is a prerogative of the European Commission.[7][8] Nonetheless, the Parliament and the Council each have the right to request the Commission to initiate the legislative procedure and put forward a proposal.[9] What is your conclusion from this? What point do you want to make? Don't leave your readers guessing.
        mike_hearn 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament In modern politics, and history, a parliament is a legislative body of government. The purpose of a parliament is to make decisions about what the law says. Something that cannot decide what the law is, is therefore not a parliament. The EU Parliament isn't really a parliament.
        pjerem 2y ago
- riffraff 2y ago
  it's not, that's why I put it in quotes, but it is removed from people's everyday lives which is why some people feel it like that. I know the names of the leaders of all parliamentary groups in my country, and how the groups stand on all positions. I have no idea who such leaders are in the EU parliament, or how they stand in e.g. the upcoming changes to GMO regulations.
pjerem 2y ago
While the Commission have mostly free hands to govern, European Parliament, elected by Europeans can veto their laws and can even veto the commission itself. European Commission is nothing else than an unelected government controlled by a parliament like it happens in most countries. Also, ultimately, the commission is nominated by elected representatives of each country so, depending on how you see the thing, we could even say that they are more democratically nominated than most governments. The only major difference between EU and most countries is that the parliament don’t have legislative power.
- riffraff 2y ago
  note I put "undemocratic" in quotes, I do not think it is actually undemocratic, but I do think it feels that way. This is because the main difference between the EU parliament and a country parliament is that the average European has only a vague inkling of who their MEP is, what groups or parties exist in the EU parliament, and how they stand on issues. People do not (generally) change their vote for a MEP because they did good/bad in their last term, they change their vote because they agree/disagree with the national party they represent.
yorwba 2y ago
The main thing that's isolating MEPs from backlash in this case is that "The Digital Services Act was adopted with 539 votes in favour, 54 votes against and 30 abstentions. The Digital Markets Act - with 588 in favour, 11 votes against and 31 abstentions." https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220701IPR34364/digital-services-landmark-rules-adopted-for-a-safer-open-online-environment https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220701IP... This was not a vote along party lines, all big European parties voted in favor, so nobody who matters can credibly campaign on an anti-DSA/DMA platform, so the issue is unlikely to become politicized to the point where it might influence careers.

Kwpolska 2y ago

There's an EU parliament election in a few weeks or so, how is that undemocratic?

pjerem 2y ago
The EU Parliament can’t make decisions, it can only veto the commission which acts as an unelected government (nominated by elected representatives of each country). But I agree with you that this idea of an undemocratic EU is rather false and really dangerous. Everyone feels like this because nobody understands that the commission don’t represent the interests of their country but those of all the European countries which few people are capable of naming years after school.
- hulitu 2y ago
  > The EU Parliament can’t make decisions, So it has no power > that this idea of an undemocratic EU is rather false and really dangerous Of course it is false and dangerous. Any disturbance in lobby money, flowing to the corrupt, unelected politicians, is false and dangerous. /s
- malermeister 2y ago
  The Comission is appointed by directly elected governments, e.g. with one proxy in-between. It is as (un-) democratic as the American Presidency, considering the Electoral College. Yet you never hear complaints about the EC from the same types that love to rally against the Commission.
  - emptysongglass 2y ago
    Actually, you do, all the time. Yes, they are both undemocratic institutions and that should be changed.
- yau8edq12i 2y ago
  The EU parliament can absolutely make decisions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Powers_and_functions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament#Powers_and... This is middle school level knowledge...
  - aembleton 2y ago
    Can it initiate legislation? Any examples of legislation that were drafted by meps?
    - yau8edq12i 2y ago
      I wasn't aware that "make decisions" meant exclusively "initiate legislation". You don't have to play coy, though: it is also middle school level knowledge that the parliament cannot formally initiate the legislative process. It's also written in the Wikipedia article I linked. > The European Parliament has legislative power in that the adoption of EU legislation normally requires its approval, and that of the Council, in what amounts to a bicameral legislature. However, it does not formally possess the right of initiative (i.e. the right to formally initiate the legislative procedure) in the way that most national parliaments of the member states do, as the right of initiative is a prerogative of the European Commission.[7][8] Nonetheless, the Parliament and the Council each have the right to request the Commission to initiate the legislative procedure and put forward a proposal.[9] What is your conclusion from this? What point do you want to make? Don't leave your readers guessing.
      - mike_hearn 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament In modern politics, and history, a parliament is a legislative body of government. The purpose of a parliament is to make decisions about what the law says. Something that cannot decide what the law is, is therefore not a parliament. The EU Parliament isn't really a parliament.
        pjerem 2y ago
riffraff 2y ago
it's not, that's why I put it in quotes, but it is removed from people's everyday lives which is why some people feel it like that. I know the names of the leaders of all parliamentary groups in my country, and how the groups stand on all positions. I have no idea who such leaders are in the EU parliament, or how they stand in e.g. the upcoming changes to GMO regulations.

pjerem 2y ago

While the Commission have mostly free hands to govern, European Parliament, elected by Europeans can veto their laws and can even veto the commission itself. European Commission is nothing else than an unelected government controlled by a parliament like it happens in most countries. Also, ultimately, the commission is nominated by elected representatives of each country so, depending on how you see the thing, we could even say that they are more democratically nominated than most governments. The only major difference between EU and most countries is that the parliament don’t have legislative power.

riffraff 2y ago
note I put "undemocratic" in quotes, I do not think it is actually undemocratic, but I do think it feels that way. This is because the main difference between the EU parliament and a country parliament is that the average European has only a vague inkling of who their MEP is, what groups or parties exist in the EU parliament, and how they stand on issues. People do not (generally) change their vote for a MEP because they did good/bad in their last term, they change their vote because they agree/disagree with the national party they represent.

yorwba 2y ago

The main thing that's isolating MEPs from backlash in this case is that "The Digital Services Act was adopted with 539 votes in favour, 54 votes against and 30 abstentions. The Digital Markets Act - with 588 in favour, 11 votes against and 31 abstentions." https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220701IPR34364/digital-services-landmark-rules-adopted-for-a-safer-open-online-environment https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220701IP... This was not a vote along party lines, all big European parties voted in favor, so nobody who matters can credibly campaign on an anti-DSA/DMA platform, so the issue is unlikely to become politicized to the point where it might influence careers.