7 ms·

Of course they’re more healthy, they eat less & walk more. I just returned from Japan, and the difference in quality of life due to urban density, reliable pub

by rychco 2y ago

Of course they’re more healthy, they eat less & walk more. I just returned from Japan, and the difference in quality of life due to urban density, reliable public transit, and walkability of every city I visited is staggering. There really is no comparison to the United States. Everything you could ever need to live is within walking distance - seriously. This is the way people are meant to live.

donw 2y ago
Except for the minor issue that this density plays a significant part in Japan's well-below-replacement-popluation birthrate. You may have noticed, walking around Tokyo, the lack of children. I certainly do every time I'm there -- I live about two hours away in a bedroom community, where you absolutely do need a car to get around. Most Tokyo families have one and only one child. Out where I live, where 1000sqft+ houses are the norm, three or more is not uncommon.
- rychco 2y ago
  That's a fair point. I hadn't considered it from the perspective of having space for children, though I don't personally think the density of Tokyo is prohibitive. I'm curious about another thing: You mention 1000sqft+ homes being the norm where you're located, is that considered a larger than average home in Japan? I can't find a recent figure for average dimensions of a Japanese home. The average in the United States, by comparison, is apparently 2273sqft (reported in 2021).
  - donw 2y ago
    For a single-family dwelling, 1000 sqft seems fairly normal in Japan. It’s also fair to mention that the lot sizes are drastically smaller: 1/16 of an acre is on the larger size here, and you’d be hard-pressed to find anything bigger that isn't in the middle of nowhere. For context, 1/16 of an acre is around 2500 sqft, so that's smaller than the average American house. And, if you have kids and move to the middle of nowhere... great, now your kids have nobody else their age to play with. Japanese homes typically don't have backyards, and the small yard you do have is typically not fenced-in, which kinda sucks with young kids.
    - Karrot_Kream 2y ago
      Obesity stats in Japan are aggregated across Japan not just Tokyo. It's true that outside of Tokyo, most of Japan drives, and is a lot less transit centric. But it's also true that most Japanese cities and towns are smaller and there's a larger culture of walking to a corner store, the local grocery store, the drugstore, a soba-ya, the shrine, the park, or other places, unless you're out in the boonies. And adults often move to Tokyo for work which means they stay fit until they become old enough to move back to the burbs to have kids. It's also very common for rural Japanese to walk along the side of the road to get places and get picked up by a friend/family with a car if the bus is taking forever to take them back. I agree too many non-Japanese who just visit judge the whole country by Tokyo which is a mistake. But there's a much bigger culture of walking and standing in Japan than there is in the US. Heck, the US has a culture of parking as close to the store/restaurant as possible in the parking lot of any commercial area to minimize walking. It's hard to beat culture. Of course Japan is also a culture where obesity is a lot more frowned upon, the doctors chastise you much harder for it, and as a collective society people feel much more pressured to stay skinny. Japanese also eat much smaller portions and find that acceptable. And Japanese in rural, more car centric, areas often are heavier than urban Japanese. I really don't think the small lot sizes are causal for Japanese not having kids, rather I think it's the other way around. Fewer folks in urban areas are having kids, dropping demand for anything larger than a 2LDK, so the market is responding in kind.

by rychco 2y ago

donw 2y ago

Except for the minor issue that this density plays a significant part in Japan's well-below-replacement-popluation birthrate. You may have noticed, walking around Tokyo, the lack of children. I certainly do every time I'm there -- I live about two hours away in a bedroom community, where you absolutely do need a car to get around. Most Tokyo families have one and only one child. Out where I live, where 1000sqft+ houses are the norm, three or more is not uncommon.

rychco 2y ago
That's a fair point. I hadn't considered it from the perspective of having space for children, though I don't personally think the density of Tokyo is prohibitive. I'm curious about another thing: You mention 1000sqft+ homes being the norm where you're located, is that considered a larger than average home in Japan? I can't find a recent figure for average dimensions of a Japanese home. The average in the United States, by comparison, is apparently 2273sqft (reported in 2021).
- donw 2y ago
  For a single-family dwelling, 1000 sqft seems fairly normal in Japan. It’s also fair to mention that the lot sizes are drastically smaller: 1/16 of an acre is on the larger size here, and you’d be hard-pressed to find anything bigger that isn't in the middle of nowhere. For context, 1/16 of an acre is around 2500 sqft, so that's smaller than the average American house. And, if you have kids and move to the middle of nowhere... great, now your kids have nobody else their age to play with. Japanese homes typically don't have backyards, and the small yard you do have is typically not fenced-in, which kinda sucks with young kids.
  - Karrot_Kream 2y ago
    Obesity stats in Japan are aggregated across Japan not just Tokyo. It's true that outside of Tokyo, most of Japan drives, and is a lot less transit centric. But it's also true that most Japanese cities and towns are smaller and there's a larger culture of walking to a corner store, the local grocery store, the drugstore, a soba-ya, the shrine, the park, or other places, unless you're out in the boonies. And adults often move to Tokyo for work which means they stay fit until they become old enough to move back to the burbs to have kids. It's also very common for rural Japanese to walk along the side of the road to get places and get picked up by a friend/family with a car if the bus is taking forever to take them back. I agree too many non-Japanese who just visit judge the whole country by Tokyo which is a mistake. But there's a much bigger culture of walking and standing in Japan than there is in the US. Heck, the US has a culture of parking as close to the store/restaurant as possible in the parking lot of any commercial area to minimize walking. It's hard to beat culture. Of course Japan is also a culture where obesity is a lot more frowned upon, the doctors chastise you much harder for it, and as a collective society people feel much more pressured to stay skinny. Japanese also eat much smaller portions and find that acceptable. And Japanese in rural, more car centric, areas often are heavier than urban Japanese. I really don't think the small lot sizes are causal for Japanese not having kids, rather I think it's the other way around. Fewer folks in urban areas are having kids, dropping demand for anything larger than a 2LDK, so the market is responding in kind.